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Sedans Nissan Altima Nissan Altima Engine Failures
500 messages, Last post on Nov 29, 2009 at 8:42 PM
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Replying to: keb8278 (Sep 09, 2006 7:13 pm) |
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Replying to: laura19 (Jan 28, 2008 5:04 am) It is very good that your engine oil consumption/leak has stopped and that you have had no catalyic converter problems, but please be very aware of these problems, because if the catalyic converter goes bad, it will mess up your engine. Still no oil loss? It is also good that you have had no loss of power and no loss of coolant. The original complaint of no heat is a common one for this car, the heater circuit gets air trapped in it and therefore no hot coolant flows through the heater core. The solution to that is to purge the air out of the cooling system. There was some conflict between items #1, #3 and #9. In #1 you said "plug 3 oil fowled", and in #3 you said "the plug are carbon fowled - not oil fowled" and in #9 you said "The condition of the plug (3) was carbon fowled". So I guess you meant to say that the plugs are dry black with dry carbon on them, not wet black? If that is so, and it is only occuring on that one plug, then the problem is obviously related to that cylinder. Since it is dry carbon, I would first suspect a RICH FUEL MIXTURE. The most likely cause of this is a bad fuel injector, causing more fuel to go into that clyinder. It can cause the fouled plug and could be the source of the engine miss. The fuel injectors are difficult to see or reach, as they are "trapped" under the upper intake manifold. Once the upper intake manifold is removed, they are very easy to reach. Two small bolts hold the fuel rail on to the lower intake manifold. The fuel injector wiring plug is unplugged at the passenger side of the engine, the two bolts holding the fuel rail are removed (don't lose the 2 spacers under the fuel rail, one at each bolt), and then the fuel rail with the injectors attached can be gently pulled from the lower intake manifold, then the fuel injectors can be replaced, use new seals lubricated with a little oil when putting them gently back in. A good prevention for this problem is to put a bottle of fuel system cleaner or Gas Treatment in your gas tank at every oil change. This should be part of every service for every car. When the Upper Intake Manifold is OFF, be SURE that the POWER VALVE SCREWS are checked to be SURE they are tight, there are 4 valves, 2 phillips head screws on each valve. They are plainly visible and accessable only when the upper intake manifold is off. 2. Review the following cleaning recommendation for the intake and exhaust systems when you replace, repair or check an engine: ^ Visually inspect for debris, water, or other foreign material inside the entire intake system, from the air filter intake through the intake manifold; clean as needed. ^ Inspect the intake manifold "runners" from the cylinder head side. Make sure that no particles of metal (broken pieces of piston, valve, etc) have stuck to the walls of the runners. ^ Visually inspect the "flange" portion of the manifold, where it attaches to the head. Make sure there are no scratches or burrs that might cause a bad seal seal. ^ Visually inspect the "power valves" inside the intake manifold (if applicable). Make sure all retaining screws that attach the "butterflies" to the shaft are in place and tight. ^ Make sure the exhaust ports are clean and free of debris. ^ Inspect the entire exhaust system for debris or other foreign material. Clean or replace as needed. Another reason for the plug fouling black could be a weak spark. Even though they have replaced the coils, I would have them check the strength of the spark, by comparing each spark against the others. They should all be able to make the same length of arc. A weak sparks means a weak coil or a problem in the circuit. Another reason that the fuel injector may flood the clyinder (much less likely), is the computer sending it the wrong signals, due to a computer or sensor malfunction. That is why you want to be sure that the voluntary sensor recall was done on your car. The recall covers two different sensors, the camshaft position sensor, shown photos #07219 and 07335, on the drivers side of the cylinder head, and the crankshaft position sensor, no picture, located on the back side of the engine. The replacement parts come in a kit called QR25DE sensor kit P/N 23731-6N225. Both parts look identical, but they are NOT, the Crankshaft Position sensor has a white paint mark on it. Do not mix up the parts. Date: December 19, 2003 VOLUNTARY RECALL CAMPAIGN ENGINE SENSORS CAMPAIGN I.D.#/NHTSA #: R3022/03V-345 APPLIED VEHICLES: 2000-03 Sentra (B15) 2002 Altima (L31) 2002-03 Maxima (A33) 2003 Murano (Z50) 2003 350Z (Z33) The compression on the cylinders (150) sounds low, but depends on how it was done. Are they sure that they were all the same? Verify how they were taken, if you can. All plugs out, battery charger on the battery to keep it charged up during the test, Throttle valve on the intake plenium blocked open, test one cylinder at a time at full cranking speed, using a good quality screw in compression tester. I was expecting 170 lbs per cylinder or more. As I said, my daughters 2002 2.5L tested at 190 in each cylinder at 100,900 miles. After the head was milled and the engine put back together, they all tested at 205 to 210 lbs per cylinder. 150 may work, but a higher compression indicates a healthier engine. Your numbers may be low due to how they did the test. That is enough for now, getting late, Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida
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Hey guys, I'm new to this forum but I am experiencing the same problems as you are. It all started with the check engine light showing catalyst deficiency. I replaced the top converter w/an aftermarkert that lasted 4 months before it feel apart. It was covered under warranty, so a new one was put on and the check engine light is still showing catalyst deficiency. Took the car in last week for the crank position sensor recall and the computer was reset. They checked all fluids and everything was as it should be. We got home the following evening and the car just wasn't running good. Checked the oil and it was empty. Put 5 quarts back in it, talked to my mechaninc and he said try the simple fix first. So, I changed out the PCV valve and put on a new valve cover gasket and changed the oil. Car ran excellent after that. Two days later, checked the oil and it was empty again. Put 5 qts. back in it, checked the oil and is solid black. The car does not have an oil leak, its all going out the exhaust. It appears that I need a new engine and converter to the tune of $5500. I'm not really sure what I should do. I would like to try to fix this myself, and I am hoping E.D. in Sunny Florida might send me his pictures. Please let me know if you can help E.D.
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Replying to: electricdesign (Jan 28, 2008 8:43 pm)
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Replying to: etoro177 (Nov 14, 2007 5:48 am) Hope this helps you. |
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Replying to: honeybzs (Dec 17, 2007 2:50 pm) |
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Replying to: southerncomf (Jan 30, 2008 11:20 am) Please read the previous messeges in this forum to understand the nature of the complaints and possible solutions. I am sorry to say I can't help you, I want to help you, but it sounds like your engine is too far gone, but check a few more things. There might be one more thing to check, since you seemed to notice improvement when you changed the PCV valve, there just may be a small possiblity that the oil could be getting sucked up by the PCV valve and the oil gets burned up in the engine and goes out the exhaust. 5 quarts of oil is all the engine holds, so you use a tremendous amount of oil for such a short time. How many miles do you goes in this 2 days and is it highway driving? I would check the PCV valve again very closely to be sure the oil is not getting sucked through it. At this moment I can't remember exactly how the hoses all went, an I don't have time to look at the pictures, but you could trying pulling the PCV hose and vent hose off the engine while it is running to see if you see "blowby" (pressured gas or smoke) coming out of the engine crankcase. That could be a sign of piston ring failure. If you see no blowby, then it just might be the PCV valve sucking oil out of the engine. If so you could trying leaving the hose off the PCV and driving to like that to see if it stops using oil. Watch it very carefully and check often to be sure oil does not leak out. If you are not sure about how to check the PCV, have a mechanic check the PCV and also check the engine crankcase for any blowby. If blowby is found, check cylinder compression to verify the engine condition. Test the compression on each cylinder, as I have outlined in previous messeges. If the results are very low, under 150 lbs in each cylinder, I would think you have a serious problem with wear in your pistons and rings and cylinders. If the compressions are NOT LOW, then there may be hope for your engine yet. I may check into the possibility of the PCV causing this, but I do not get acess to the car very often, I will check the pictures later, but may not be able to tell much by them. If I find anything that could appear like it may cause this to happen, I will address this later after I have all the facts. This would be a very unsual problem, but may be worth looking into. If you do have heavy wear in the piston and cylinders, you will need another engine, because if it uses that much oil that fast and not leaking and low compression, that means your pistons and piston and cylinder walls are all worn out. They have been eaten up by catalytic conveter spewing it chemicals into your engines exhaust ports, Once the engine parts are eaten up by the abrasive chemical, the engine is destroyed. It's like if you ate sand all the time, how long would you last? Check that PCV. Have you read the previous messeges? Particularly #169, I spoke about what the problem was and what to do about it. Unfortunately, you have to do somethihg about it early on, before it is too late. Below is some key text from that messege. It says what to do about the problem and how to avoid having the problem, but you have to read between the lines, Everyone with the 2.5L engine should read this: The solution to the problem is to NOT let the CAT eat up the engine. This is a touchy subject, because the CAT is required by law, because it reduces pollution. It also depends on where you live and if you are required to subject you car to emissions testing. What happens sometimes is that the chemicals and screens inside of the CAT breaks apart and the contents of the Cat is blown down the exhaust pipe. If the material happens to be blown out the muffler and out the tailpipe, then the material is no longer a threat to the engine, because it is gone. However, since it is gone, the oxygen sensors in the exhaust system, one before the Cat and one after the CAT, will detect that the CAT is not working and will throw the Diagnostic Trouble Code "Catalytic Converter Efficiency below threshold" or similar messege, and will cause the "service engine soon" light to come on. If the CATs get blown out, the engine will run fine, but you would have to live with the "SES" light on all the time, if you can. Can you? About the pictures of the teardown and rebuild of the 2.5L engine, I posted the links to both sets of those pictures at the bottom of messege #182. ANYONE can view those pictures. All you have to do is click on the link in the messege and it takes you to the photo album at the site. All you have to do is log in to the site (you will have to register, if you haven't before, it's free), it will automatically take you to the photo album where you can view the photos individually, view a slide show for free or buy prints of any that you may want. There are over 300 photos in each set. If clicking on the links does not work on your computer, copy and paste the link to your browser and click GO, to get to the photo site. Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida |
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Replying to: laura19 (Jan 30, 2008 12:25 pm) "Initially, plug 3 was oil fowled due to a minor leak through the valve cover gasket". I am not aware of any way that a valve cover gasket leaking could allow oil to get into any cylinder or combustion chamber. They are simply not related. I assume the mechanic just switched the ignition coils between cylinders #3 & #4 and the same problem occured? The problem may be the primary circuit feeding the coil, which comes from the computer. It could be the connector is bad, or the wiring is bad, or an input to the computer is bad, or the computer could be bad, in that order. HOWEVER, I would be sure to test the output of each coil first, just like I said in my previous messege. If the coil is putting out a weak spark, whether it is the coil, wiring, or computer, it will show up in the coil output voltage test. You can compare the relative voltage output of each coil by the maximum length of the spark it makes. Here is how I do it.: To test the coil output voltage, you test one coil at a time. The engine is going to run on 3 cylinders while you test the fourth coil. Remove the small bolt that holds the coil in place. Unplug the connector from the coil and pull the coil up off the spark plug and out of the valve cover. Plug the coil back into the connector. Place a good insulator under the coil to hold it up off the engine (like a dry block of wood). Make sure the coil has the long boot on it that goes down to the spark plug. Get a good flexible test wire with an alligator clip on each end. securely fasten one alligator clip to a GOOD Ground in the engine compartment. Be sure that it won't come off. If it comes off while you are doing this test, you will recieve a tremendous shock! So be sure it stays on. At the bottom of the coil boot, insert a piece of wire or rod or screw that when in place will connect to the metal inside the boot and act as a conductor protruding a short distance out the end of the boot. Clip the other end of the alligator clip test wire to this metal. When all set, have an assistant start the car, keep yourself and wires away from moving parts. The motor will run a little rough since it is running on 3 cylinders. Carefully loosen the alligator clip from the metal protruding from the coil boot, and slowly withdraw the alligator clip away from the metal. It will draw an arc, should be bluish-white with some some tinges of red or orange color. Continue to slowly draw the arc longer and longer, noting how long it is before the arc starts to fail. Measure with a WOOD ruler if you need to. Clip the aligator clip back on the metal and have the assistant shut off the engine. Write down the arc length and cyinder number. Remove the test wire and metal and assemble the coil and plug back into the original correct position and install the small coil bolt. Do this same procedure on the other coils and compare the arc lengths. The longer the length, the higher the voltage. they should all be about the same are length. Any coils found with short arc lengths should be investigated for weak coils or problems in the primary circuit. What's this about a remote starter? I had not heard you mention that before. Did your engine have all the sensor recalls done to it? Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida |
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The car has almost 106,000 miles on it. It is burning all five quarts within driving 200-300 miles. I've never seen anything like it before. When I changed the pcv valve there was no noticeable blowby, but I will double check by pulling off the pcv hose and vent hose. When you say vent hose, are you talking about the other hose on the valve cover? I haven't checked the compression yet either. My intentions are to rebuild if possible or to buy another engine, but in doing this should we expect the same problems in the next 100,000 miles. Has Nissan done anything about the top cat, or should we all expect it to malfunction again. If not, it seems a fresh rebuild or new engine would be a complete waste of time and money.
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Replying to: southerncomf (Jan 31, 2008 6:08 am) The crankcase vent hose (the hose that carries clean intake air into the engine crankcase) on the drivers side end of the valve cover, is shown in photos #07364, 07365 & 07366. Remove the spring clamp as shown, and pull the hose loose from the valve cover. You might have to take the other end of the hose loose, to get enough slack to pull it off the valve cover. The PVC suction hose (the hose that carries the dirty air, fumes or smoke from the engine crankcase to the intake plenium) connects on the back of the valve cover, is shown in photo #06958, you loosen that spring clamp and pull that line off the backside of the valve cover. When you pull the hose off, the hose should have suction when you start the engine, plug the hose. Look to see if any smoke comes out where you unplugged the hose from the valve cover. Having both hoses disconnected will expose the crankcase to atmospheric pressure, and it any smoke or pressure is created by blowby, it will come out one or both of the openings. A very small amount of blowby is acceptable, but a large amount is not. Having someone rev the engine may increase the smoke, if any is visible. If you do get a lot of blowby gas coming out the valve cover opening, it is an indicator that the piston rings are worn out, but confirm with a compression test. You can also do a vacuum test, but the clyinder compression test give more reliable results. I would not tear into or rebuild the engine without making a thorough diagnosis first, to be sure of what is wrong with it. If you are going to rebuild the engine, you will have to remove the engine from the car. It may be best to buy a remanufactured engine and put one in. A remanufactured engine from Jasper Engines with a 3 year warrenty is $3,411.00. You said "My intentions are to rebuild if possible or to buy another engine, but in doing this should we expect the same problems in the next 100,000 miles. Has Nissan done anything about the top cat, or should we all expect it to malfunction again. If not, it seems a fresh rebuild or new engine would be a complete waste of time and money", and you are right, you will have the same problems again, because the problem is NOT the engine, the engine is a fairly good engine, The problem IS the PRE CATALYIC CONVERTER failing and contaminating and destroying a perfectly good engine. Nissan has not done anything about the pre-cat as far as I know. Listen closely, read all the messeges in this forum so that you know what is going on. If you are really looking at spending that much money and that much inconvenience, it is certainly worth doing a days worth of research so that you can avoid this problem in the future. I gave you the solution in messege #190, read the BOLD TEXT again, and this time read between the lines. The catalytic convertors are required by law, so I can't legally tell you to change, alter or modify them. I can only tell you what I did. What you do is up to you. But I have permanently solved the catalytic converter problem on my daughters 2002 Nissan Altima 2.5S. It is running perfectly fine now. She has drove it about 1500 miles since I put the engine back together, and it is smooth as silk, no smoke, not using hardly any oil (she said the oil was barely down from full on the stick). Also, it is important to go back and read messege #75, and pay special attention to the part that says: "When I felt the 2nd catalytic converter, it was still cold, even after the engine ran for several minutes. That means it was plugged up! I unbolted the pipe and 2nd catalytic converter and took it off and unplugged it, put it back on, and the car ran perfect again." I fixed the converters, and I don't expect to have any converter problems or oil burning problems with it. Her converter problems were not as bad as yours, and I caught the problem in time BEFORE it destroyed the engine. Her car was starting to use about 1 quart in 1500 miles, but now it seems a lot better, will know by next oil change. I was fortunate that the Cat Plugged up the exhaust system, which brought the problem to my attention. I then unplugged the cats and the problem is gone. The reason her engine had to come apart was because the head warped and the head gasket began to leak. I removed the head, did a valve job on the head, milled the head flat, put on a new head gasket and put it back together. Take a look at the pictures of the pre-cat, photos # 06930, 06931,06932, 06933 & 06934. The inside of the pre-cat are gone, they blew down the exhaust pipe to the second cat and plugged it up. She is taking the 2002 Altima 2.5S on a 400 mile trip tomorrow, mostly interstate driving, so I will see how it did when she gets back. The following link is to the album on the photo site that has the photos of how the cat (second cat, the one under the car right before the muffler) was unplugged: http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=215914481/a=85874609_85874609/t_- =85874609 Photo #06065 shows the the second cat, the one under the car, the one that plugged up. Photo 06064 shows it in front of the muffler. Photos 06068 & 06069 show a lot of water draining out of the muffler, it was FULL of water because barely any exhaust gas went through the converter, and what little did condensed into water in the muffler, because the muffler never warmed up. Photo 06082 shows a close up of the second cat off the car. Photo 06087 shows the inside of the second cat before it was unplugged. Photos 06096 & 06097 show the stuff that came out of the cat when it was unplugged. Photos 06098, 06099 & 06100 show the inside of the second cat after it was unplugged. I have gone into a lot of detail in explaining these problems, because in this open forum setting, many others will read these messeges and hopefully many will benefit from them. Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida |
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