Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Sedans Nissan Altima Nissan Altima Engine Failures
495 messages, Last post on Nov 06, 2009 at 9:53 AM
You are in the Nissan Altima Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
|
Replying to: laura19 (Jan 27, 2008 7:13 am)
|
|
|
Replying to: jd10013 (Jan 27, 2008 9:59 am) |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: laura19 (Jan 25, 2008 10:03 am) I have read your original messege #174 and all the following messeges to date, 175 through 180. I have not checked in here for a couple of days. I am a semi-retired mechanic, and I just just did major rebuild work on one of these same 2002 Altima 2.5L 4 cylinder inline engines in December 2007, my daughters car with 100,903 miles on it. It had all the typical problems that we are seeing in some of these cars today, such as problems with the catalytic converter failing and/or plugging, begining to use more oil problem and leaking head gasket problem. I fixed all those problems and now her car is running perfect every day. I am familiar with this engine and all the sensors. Looking at the original information and the following comments, I see a lot of holes and/or gaps in the information about your car. The reason that the several mechanics have not been able to fix your car is because something is being overlooked. We need to go back to the basics and start from the begining and work our way through the problem to find the solution. I will be able to help you by steering you in the right direction if you can just give me the correct information that I need, and fill in the blanks or gaps. The better information that you can give me, the better I can help you. First, you need to be familiar with what is going on with this engine, the problems that are showing up and why the problems are happening. It may sound far feched, but your engines problems are likely related to these problems that have been discussed on this forum so far. If you have not done so, please read all the messeges in this forum, or at least messege #75 on to this one. Here are a few questions to get started. Please gather up all the information that you can and reply back with your answers. I'll check back in a couple of days. 1. What were your original complaints that led you to think anything was wrong with your car? Having to add oil frequently? Engine misfiring or running bad? Subsequent compaints or anything else? Is the current milage about 116,000 miles? 2. You stated that "I have had unexplained oil consumption". But no further comment has been made about that. Since the oil consumption is "unexplained", I would assume that there is not an oil leak anywhere on the engine after the valve cover gasket was replaced. How much engine oil is the engine losing in 1000 miles? How often do you check the engine oil level? How often are you having to add engine oil, and how much? If you don't know exactly, try to give an estimate. 3. Then you brought up the problem of misfiring on cylinder #3. Was misfiring an original complaint? How was the misfiring determined to be on cylinder #3? Did the technician read the DTC's (Diagnositic Trouble Codes) with a Scanner? Find out what codes were scanned and please report them here. Tell me all you can about this misfire. Does it happen all the time or just some of the time? Does it miss when you first start the engine after it has been sitting for a long while or over night? Does the miss go away after you drive it a short distance? 4. Have you had a noticable loss of power from the engine, and if so, did it seem to ocurr suddenly or over a period of time? Have you had any known problems yet with the Pre-Catalyic Converter or the Catalytic Converter, or had any trouble codes pertaining to them? 5. You were also told "no water coming through". I would assume that is referring to any coolant leaking inside the engine. Has the engine ever run hot? Have you had any instance where the engine got hot because a hose blew or the radiator blew? Where does your temperature gauge normally register with normal driving down the road (Normal is in about the middle of the temperature gauge). Does the temperature gauge vary very much once it is warmed up? Does it read at about the same when sitting at a light with the motor idleing? Check the coolant tank reservior tank level often when the engine is cold. Does the level of coolant in the coolant tank reservior stay the same level, or does it go low. Do you have to add any coolant to the coolant reservior? It is normal for the coolant level to be lower when the engine is cold and higher when the engine is at operating temperature. Your mechanic should have a handheld scanner that is capable of monitor mode, being able to see and read the functions that the computer monitors, such as coolant temperature, ignition timing, intake air temperature, intake air volume, fuel trims, oxygen sensors, etc. He can have this connected to the car and observe these things while the car is stationary or while driving the car. With the car stationary and engine idleing, the coolant temperture should rise up to about 200 to 203 degrees, then both the electric fans behind the radiator should come on, then the temperature should drop down to about 188 degrees and then the fans turn off. This cycle continues, but when moving down the road, the fans may not need to come on because of the wind blowing through the radiator. 6. You said "Was told that the piston is fine, no scoring, no water coming through. Compression is fine". How were these things determined? If the compression was tested on the cylinders, it is important to know what those are. My daugthers 2002 Altima 2.5 had 190 pounds of compression in each cylinder, which is very good. This indicated that the pistion rings were good and holding compression well. Also good is the fact that the compressions on all 4 cylinders was the same. The maximum compression variation between cylinders is 20%, which in this case would be about 38 pounds, so the acceptable range of compressions should be about 152 to 190, the closer the better. Howerver, compressions alone are not the sole indicator of engine condition, all factors must be considered together to arrive at the proper conclusion. In the case of my daughters Altima, even though the compressions were good, the head gasket was still bad, because it had a very small leak in the head gasket that allowed coolant to flow into one cylinder when the engine was shut off. When it was restarted from a cold start, the coolant in the cylinder caused that cylinder to miss for about a minute until the spark plug dried off and started firing, then it ran fine. The problem was found because the coolant reservior ran low and combustion gas was found in the radiator. 7. Referring to the scoring, how was it determined that there was no scoring. The only sure way to tell is by taking the engine apart, removing the cylinder head and examining the cylinders. Other that that, it may have been assumed that the pistons were ok and that there was no scoring due to good compression readings. Continued on next messege
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: electricdesign (Jan 27, 2008 9:10 pm) 8. Since you have taken your Altima to the dealer to be checked, I would assume that they put in the Recall with the updated Crankshaft Position Sensor and the updated Camshaft position sensor. Is this correct? I would also assume that they did the Recall for the Intake Manifold Power VaIve, where the upper intake manifold is removed and the power valve screws are checked and tightened. I would check and verify if these recalls been done, and let us know. 9. You said "Then my Piston # 3 was misfiring. I had my #3 coilpack and plugs replaced. Piston #3 kept misfiring. Was told by another mechanic that I should have had a Nissan coil pack and platinum plugs put in. I did that. Piston #3 still misfiring". What was the condition of the original spark plug on #3 cylinder? Fouled? Dirty? Wet? Oil? Coolant? Were all 4 spark plugs replaced? If it is still missing, all 4 spark plugs should be carefully removed and looked at. The condtion of each one should be noted. They should be clean and dry, light tan in color, electrodes not bent, all look the same. That is enough questions for now. Please gather up what you can and let us know what you find out. If you or anyone else would like to see pictures of the 2002 Altima 2.5L engine being taken apart and put back together, I posted links below that can take you to the photos. The site is for photographs of all types, and the basic service is free, pictures can be stored on albums there for free. They only charge if you buy photos from them. If you are not registered, you can simply register to gain acess to viewing the pictures. There are hundreds of photos of taking the engine apart and hundreds of photos putting the engine together. 2007-12-10 2002 Altima eng teardown pictures http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=215829101/a=85874609_85874609/t_- =85874609 2007-12-17 Altima eng rebuild pictures http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=215829106/a=85874609_85874609/t_- =85874609 Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida
|
|
|
Replying to: electricdesign (Jan 27, 2008 9:16 pm) 1. My original complaint was no heat at idle and some hesitation at 40MPH. Had heat issue fixed, plug 3 oil fowled. 116K miles on car. 2. Had gasket under valve cover replaced (leaking oil). Was losing about 1qt. oil every 1000 miles. Haven't had any loss of oil since gasgket replaced. I was checking my oil once a week. 3. Misfiring on cylinder#3 started about 2 weeks after orig. issue. Had codes read and Cylinder#3 misfire detected. This is the only code that comes us. Had o2 sensore checked and was fine. Then had platinum plugs and new coil pack installed. It only happens when I reach 40mph. Although, two mechanics had it for a day or two and they said it didn't happen. Some times it can go a day before happening - only after driving it a while. It never happens after first starting the car. Now when cylinder#3 misfire is detected, the plug are carbon fowled - not oil fowled. Had my ecm reprogrammed at dealership along with other recalls (headlamps, erar subframe, fuel screen) 4. There has been no loss of power. I have not had any probs. w/catalytic convereter (as far as I know). 5. The mechanic just told me that no water came through piston #3. The heater gauge has never varied from the middle of the gauge. Coolant seems to be just fine in resevoir. 6-7. I really think the mechanic was just assuming that there was no scoring etc on piston #3. The compression of all cylinders is 150. 8. The dealer never told me about recalls on crankshaft position/sensor or the Intake Manifold Power Vavle. I will call them - thank you. 9. The condition of the plug (3) was carbon fowled. today, they are re-dagnosing (I hope) my car and will post the results as soon as I hear something. THANK YOU so much for all this helpful information. I really appreciate it. I wish you lived up here!!! I really need someone who knows what the heck they are doing!!!
|
|
|
Replying to: keb8278 (Sep 09, 2006 7:13 pm) |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: laura19 (Jan 28, 2008 5:04 am) It is very good that your engine oil consumption/leak has stopped and that you have had no catalyic converter problems, but please be very aware of these problems, because if the catalyic converter goes bad, it will mess up your engine. Still no oil loss? It is also good that you have had no loss of power and no loss of coolant. The original complaint of no heat is a common one for this car, the heater circuit gets air trapped in it and therefore no hot coolant flows through the heater core. The solution to that is to purge the air out of the cooling system. There was some conflict between items #1, #3 and #9. In #1 you said "plug 3 oil fowled", and in #3 you said "the plug are carbon fowled - not oil fowled" and in #9 you said "The condition of the plug (3) was carbon fowled". So I guess you meant to say that the plugs are dry black with dry carbon on them, not wet black? If that is so, and it is only occuring on that one plug, then the problem is obviously related to that cylinder. Since it is dry carbon, I would first suspect a RICH FUEL MIXTURE. The most likely cause of this is a bad fuel injector, causing more fuel to go into that clyinder. It can cause the fouled plug and could be the source of the engine miss. The fuel injectors are difficult to see or reach, as they are "trapped" under the upper intake manifold. Once the upper intake manifold is removed, they are very easy to reach. Two small bolts hold the fuel rail on to the lower intake manifold. The fuel injector wiring plug is unplugged at the passenger side of the engine, the two bolts holding the fuel rail are removed (don't lose the 2 spacers under the fuel rail, one at each bolt), and then the fuel rail with the injectors attached can be gently pulled from the lower intake manifold, then the fuel injectors can be replaced, use new seals lubricated with a little oil when putting them gently back in. A good prevention for this problem is to put a bottle of fuel system cleaner or Gas Treatment in your gas tank at every oil change. This should be part of every service for every car. When the Upper Intake Manifold is OFF, be SURE that the POWER VALVE SCREWS are checked to be SURE they are tight, there are 4 valves, 2 phillips head screws on each valve. They are plainly visible and accessable only when the upper intake manifold is off. 2. Review the following cleaning recommendation for the intake and exhaust systems when you replace, repair or check an engine: ^ Visually inspect for debris, water, or other foreign material inside the entire intake system, from the air filter intake through the intake manifold; clean as needed. ^ Inspect the intake manifold "runners" from the cylinder head side. Make sure that no particles of metal (broken pieces of piston, valve, etc) have stuck to the walls of the runners. ^ Visually inspect the "flange" portion of the manifold, where it attaches to the head. Make sure there are no scratches or burrs that might cause a bad seal seal. ^ Visually inspect the "power valves" inside the intake manifold (if applicable). Make sure all retaining screws that attach the "butterflies" to the shaft are in place and tight. ^ Make sure the exhaust ports are clean and free of debris. ^ Inspect the entire exhaust system for debris or other foreign material. Clean or replace as needed. Another reason for the plug fouling black could be a weak spark. Even though they have replaced the coils, I would have them check the strength of the spark, by comparing each spark against the others. They should all be able to make the same length of arc. A weak sparks means a weak coil or a problem in the circuit. Another reason that the fuel injector may flood the clyinder (much less likely), is the computer sending it the wrong signals, due to a computer or sensor malfunction. That is why you want to be sure that the voluntary sensor recall was done on your car. The recall covers two different sensors, the camshaft position sensor, shown photos #07219 and 07335, on the drivers side of the cylinder head, and the crankshaft position sensor, no picture, located on the back side of the engine. The replacement parts come in a kit called QR25DE sensor kit P/N 23731-6N225. Both parts look identical, but they are NOT, the Crankshaft Position sensor has a white paint mark on it. Do not mix up the parts. Date: December 19, 2003 VOLUNTARY RECALL CAMPAIGN ENGINE SENSORS CAMPAIGN I.D.#/NHTSA #: R3022/03V-345 APPLIED VEHICLES: 2000-03 Sentra (B15) 2002 Altima (L31) 2002-03 Maxima (A33) 2003 Murano (Z50) 2003 350Z (Z33) The compression on the cylinders (150) sounds low, but depends on how it was done. Are they sure that they were all the same? Verify how they were taken, if you can. All plugs out, battery charger on the battery to keep it charged up during the test, Throttle valve on the intake plenium blocked open, test one cylinder at a time at full cranking speed, using a good quality screw in compression tester. I was expecting 170 lbs per cylinder or more. As I said, my daughters 2002 2.5L tested at 190 in each cylinder at 100,900 miles. After the head was milled and the engine put back together, they all tested at 205 to 210 lbs per cylinder. 150 may work, but a higher compression indicates a healthier engine. Your numbers may be low due to how they did the test. That is enough for now, getting late, Good Luck, E.D. in Sunny Florida
|
|
|
|
Hey guys, I'm new to this forum but I am experiencing the same problems as you are. It all started with the check engine light showing catalyst deficiency. I replaced the top converter w/an aftermarkert that lasted 4 months before it feel apart. It was covered under warranty, so a new one was put on and the check engine light is still showing catalyst deficiency. Took the car in last week for the crank position sensor recall and the computer was reset. They checked all fluids and everything was as it should be. We got home the following evening and the car just wasn't running good. Checked the oil and it was empty. Put 5 quarts back in it, talked to my mechaninc and he said try the simple fix first. So, I changed out the PCV valve and put on a new valve cover gasket and changed the oil. Car ran excellent after that. Two days later, checked the oil and it was empty again. Put 5 qts. back in it, checked the oil and is solid black. The car does not have an oil leak, its all going out the exhaust. It appears that I need a new engine and converter to the tune of $5500. I'm not really sure what I should do. I would like to try to fix this myself, and I am hoping E.D. in Sunny Florida might send me his pictures. Please let me know if you can help E.D.
|
|
|
Replying to: electricdesign (Jan 28, 2008 8:43 pm)
|
|
|
Replying to: etoro177 (Nov 14, 2007 5:48 am) Hope this helps you. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Sedans Nissan Altima Nissan Altima Engine Failures
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Nissan Altima
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
