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Hatchbacks Toyota Yaris 2007 Hyundai Accent v 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift
443 messages, Last post on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:51 AM
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Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2006 10:51 am) "So the purchase prices for sake of this example are $13,040 (TMV less rebate) for the Accent and $14,950 for the Yaris (TMV, assuming no rebate). After five years according to ALG's estimates, the Accent will be worth 23% of its MSRP and the Yaris will be worth 32%. That's $3334 for the Accent and $4784 for the Yaris. But the Accent actually cost $13,040. So over five years, the Accent buyer lost $9696 in depreciation, and the Yaris buyer lost $10,166. Please check my math on this example, but it looks like the Yaris buyer lost more money in five years than the Accent buyer did." After pointing out the gas-savings the Yaris provides, you say: "You are correct [my emphasis] that the $500 difference in my example would be made up in gas savings, assuming 10k miles a year or more over five years and $3.00 a gallon gas" Hmmm... sounds like you were convinced... And now you do drive an average of 10k per? Seems just a while ago it was "less"... oh well, guess it just depends on your position in the argument. Actually, very few car loans are paid off early (and not traded in on something else). Just another minority you find yourself in (but at least it's a good one  ). As for the risk, it's not just MY opinion. If you ask any reasonable NON-Hyundai/Toyota owner which vehicle (Toyota or Hyundai) they believe to be the riskier to own, you know as well as I do how lopsided it would be. "Far" riskier I say? Well, even if we ONLY go back 3 years... it looks to be that way doesn't it??? T
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Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2006 10:52 am) I did So is it valid or not? Because if it is, it opens up a whole can of worms with regards to Hyundai's recent history now doesn't it? Especially with Toyota having so "many" problems  T
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Oct 04, 2006 11:05 am) Accent: $13,040 price + 6.5% tax + $300 license/fees (plug in your own numbers) = $14,177. Put 10% down, finance $12,759 at 7% (pretty good rate these days) for 60 months, total interest is $2400. Yaris: $14,950 price + 6.5% tax + $300 license/fees = $16,222. Put 10% down, finance $14,600 at 7% for 60 months, total interest is $2746. Difference is $346 (assuming very few car loans are paid off early, as you noted). Plus add the costs of any repairs on the Yaris in years 4 and 5 that are not covered by Toyota's bumper-to-bumper warranty (but would be covered under Hyundai's 5-year b-to-b warranty). Plus you save about $60/year on roadside assistance (e.g. AAA) fees, which are paid for by Hyundai (very nice little perk, if you have a spouse who likes to lock the keys in the car, or gets a flat tire etc.). The savings with the Accent just keep adding up! The main risk with the Accent might be the trouble you will have figuring out what to do with all that extra money. I've already explained how much I drive in a year. Do you want it down to the 1/10th of a mile? You haven't been too precise in other matters (like on how many cars Toyota makes compared to Hyundai)--why are you so picky on that one? Is it because I used some facts to point out that the average driver drives not 15k a year, as you claimed, but 12k? As for risk, there is also the risk associated with driving around in a small car without safety features such as side airbags and ABS. There is the greater risk of driving a car with lesser crash protection than another car. I find those risks harder to accept than any risk there may be in differences in reliability.
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Oct 04, 2006 11:10 am) But if you think these short-term reliability studies ARE valid, OK by me. The fact that Hyundai topped Toyota in the latest IQS is significant then, isn't it?
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Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2006 4:10 pm)  ... IF you add in the extra miles in gas, the Yaris gobbles up all of your "extra" savings too... guess you just forgot that we figured 10k per (since we were using a cash buyer driving that little). And as for wanting it to the 1/10th of a mile, as a matter of fact, YES, I DO. Especially when you want to break your "savings" down to a possible savings of $60 in roadside assistance... sheesh, who's nickel and diming now? Seems a 10% gas mileage difference is equally significant, but whatever... I actually HAVE documentation from ALG (trying to find a link, but I don't think they publish it online) that states the average mileage for a non-luxury car for 2004 (not 2001), was almost 14700... A little closer to 15k than 12k, but again, whatever... And in the Yaris you cite in your example (remember, you loaded it up to get your "savings"), you DO get ABS and Side Airbags, so not sure where you're trying to go with your "risk" argument. T
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Replying to: backy (Oct 04, 2006 4:12 pm) I'll let you in on a another secret here too... it's a set-up . I think you realize how Hyundai does in comparison in almost every other test conducted by JD Power over the last 10 years (even the recent ones). My hunch is, you'll only grant validity to the one Hyundai eeks out, and claim everything else is irrelevant or too old (too old being three years...). T |
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Oct 05, 2006 5:38 am) Doesn't matter, we are talking about Accent vs. Yaris, not Hyundai vs. Toyota...you are being way off-topic here. Plus, both are new cars (especially Hyundai's) so reliablity is a moot point to be even discussing...give it a few years and then we'll chat And your second "secret", I am puzzled too, again off-topic, but even so, the fact remains Hyundai has made the biggest jump in the auto industry, as far as quality and reliabilty are concerned...compare Toyota when they are relatively new to the US markets vs. Hyundai present time, that should be somewhat fair...
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Oct 05, 2006 5:38 am) The calculations I provided on gas savings (and finance savings and repair savings) were based on an "average" driver who drives 12k a year (please share that ALG link with us when you find it, try Google), finances the car, and owns it for at least five years. I don't consider savings of $300 ($60 a year for five years) nickel-and-diming. If you do, then wouldn't the $500 in gas savings over five years for the Yaris be nickel-and-diming also? $300 a pop adds up to big money: about $350 in finance savings, $300 in roadside assistance savings, some $$$ in repair savings, plus the savings in depreciation of about $500. Subtract the $500 in gas savings on the Yaris, and you are way ahead with the Accent. Plus outside of the financial advantages, you get a car with more room, a more comfortable driving position, more power, better crash-test scores, more standard safety features, more standard convenience features, and a longer warranty. I think that spells "Value". The Yaris and Accent I used in my example earlier (which you cited also btw) were well-equipped, with power package, alloys, ABS, and side airbags. I equipped the two cars as closely as possible, at least in pixels. Real-world availability is another matter. The Accent SE comes standard with all that equipment, so I know I can buy one with ABS and side bags. I don't know that for the Yaris. I did ask you awhile back how many Yaris hatches with stick, ABS, and side bags you have seen at your dealership. You chose not to answer the question.
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Oct 05, 2006 5:38 am) Toyota sold 8.12 million vehicles in 2005 worldwide, while Hyundai sold 3.72 million vehicles. Even if you take the Kia portion out, that is still nowhere near 20:1... World 2005 - (a little over 2:1 but probably close to 3:1 excluding Kia figures) In the US: Toyota in 2005: 2.26 million vehicles Hyundai in 2005: 0.42 million vehicles US 2005 (a little over 5:1) 2006 YTD (thru. Sept): Toyota: 1.93 million Hyundai: 0.36 million US 2006 YTD (the same as above - a little over 5:1) 20:1 would not make Hyundai the 6th largest automaker in the world
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Replying to: backy (Oct 05, 2006 12:21 pm) ? Also never said for what duration... Did/do they outsell them 20:1 in a given hour? Yup. Backy is quoting something that he misinterpreted... but he does that a lot, so no worries! And if real world availability of the Yaris is the best you can do... you're really grasping at straws now lol. Seems I remember how you spelled value backy... wasn't it F-I-T (despite being more expensive, less equipped, and shorter warrantied)? A customer of mine today gave an interesting analogy (I'm paraphrasing here): "Hyundai is in a way like the lifetime D student that somehow managed to pull out a few B's and A's for a couple semester's. Sure, it MAY be a sign of a legitimate turn-around, but you can't just IGNORE his history. If Hyundai can keep it up for more than a few years, they'll have more believers. Until then, they still are what they were." If you want to take the chance that despite their history they have legitimately turned it around, then fine, it's a free country. Until they PROVE otherwise (through more than just a handful of short-term awards), your money is better spent on something that has better predicted reliability, better gas mileage, better resale, and a PROVEN history. And to top it off, my one and only true shot, it's NOT a Hyundai... In today's world, as much as you are blinded to the fact, that counts. It may not be fair, or right, or whatever, but it's what you get when a lot of people still view the company as the "crooked H". T
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