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SUVs Toyota Highlander Toyota Highlander Real World MPG
209 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM
You are in the Toyota Highlander Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: citivas (Aug 17, 2008 12:21 pm) You're right - the $12K - $13K price difference for let's say, a 9 MPG difference  $4.00 per gallon with 15,000 miles per year (average) would take about 12 YEARS just to break even financially. (I used Toyota's data of 18 MPG City and 27 MPG City for the gas/hybrid models respectively.) I know that some do, but I don't hold onto a vehicle that long. If a Hybrid makes sense for some folks - fine; but I wish more people would wake up and stop giving into the hype. |
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The Hybrid owners will tell you that they didn't do it "just for the gas price" benefit but to help the environment. I believe that is true to a point, though given the overall carbon footprint of that small MPG savings there are many other very simple ways they could have gotten the non-Hybrid Highlander and still ended up ahead, including literally mowing their lawn a couple time less a year (a mower gives off 40x the emissions of a modern car). That said, and I have has this debate on a few other Highlander Hybrid forums, the Hybrid owners also seem somewhat in denial about the price difference. Most insisted it wasn't even close to that much and insisted they would break-even in about 5 years (the highest I saw anyone quote was 7 years). Some of these people bought their hybrids before there was a run on them and before Toyota started taking losses on the non-hybrids so the delta was a little smaller. But I think a lot of them didn't do a detailed study of the real cost difference that has always existed between these vehicles. I started as a perfect example. I first test drove the Highlander because I was specifically looking at the Hybrid. The dealer told me the Hybrid cost "about $4K" more than the comparable non-Hybrid Highlander. And if you just look at the MSRP for the Limited HH versus the Limited H that appears true. But Toyota was completely slimy in dropping a bunch of standard equipment out of the HH Limited and making them expensive options. Some of the things they dropped would never be missing from any Limited class vehicle from any manufacture and Toyota dealers will tell you it is pretty much impossible to even order the car without them so it was a purely cynical move on Toyota's part and not good faith packaging. How many people would buy 3-row car with NO AC beyond the first row, let alone on a Limited? But you have to first upgrade to have AC at all in the rear, then upgrade to have auto control in the rear then upgrade to have auto climate control in the front to get to the non-HH standard package. The net result of all this options gamesmanship is another $3-4K in price delta on top of the MSRP difference before you even start negotiating. The bottom line is unless this is a fleet vehicle or the person is some kind of regional sales person, no one is seeing their up-front price delta in less than a decade. It would take me at least 15 years at $5 fuel. |
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Replying to: citivas (Aug 18, 2008 12:26 pm) The other interesting point for those who buy Hybrids for their 'green' image. Most don't realize just how much green-house-gas was released into the atmosphere when manufacturing the batteries. I've seen reports of up to 100k miles at EPA estimates required to 'environmentally' break even with the all-petro version of the same car. Only then do you start 'saving the world'. Bottom line, we need a better (for the environment) mobile energy storage technology.
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Replying to: toyseeker (Aug 19, 2008 3:11 am) It's as bad as the mercury issue with florescent lights.... Another issue I have with Hybrids is the shock potential in a bad accident... Rescue people have to get special training, because you can get crispy instantly... If you don't believe me ask a fire fighter.....
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Replying to: my_mr2 (Aug 19, 2008 8:40 am) tidester, host SUVs and Smart Shopper |
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Replying to: my_mr2 (Aug 19, 2008 8:40 am) Hmmm, not sure how much lead is in a Nickel Metal Hydroxide (NiMh) battery, but probably not much. |
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Replying to: citivas (Aug 18, 2008 12:26 pm) |
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I just thought it funny that no one questioned the safety impact of Hybrids on the occupants and those around them (ie first responders), but picked on the environmental issues...
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Replying to: my_mr2 (Aug 25, 2008 8:32 am) Hybrids are an environmental farse.
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I agree with the earlier poster's calculations, but not the conclusion. If I had at least an extra $10,000 sitting in a savings account, I could leave it there, or use it upgrade my next vehicle to a Hybrid. Right now, I can get only 4 or 4.5 % CD's for 5 years. Not an historically high rate of return. If I put it into a Hybrid, I'm quite sure I can get half of that back when I sell or trade in, say, 5 years. So it really only ends up costing me $5,000 for the Hybrid upgrade. For which I get not a 12 year payback, but 6 year payback. And that translates to a 13-14% rate of return. I'm sure that my assumptions are arguable. But two things are often left out of the equation: the higher resale value of Hybrids; and the fact that even a 12 year payback is a lot better than money in the bank these days. At simple interest, that's 8.5%! Can anyone tell me where I can put my money and get 8.5%? I scoffed at a co-worker's similar conclusion when he decided not to add a grid-connected solar upgrade to his home last year, because it got him a (only) a 7 year payback. Non of his other investments are giving him anywhere close to that. That's about an 11% annual return he could have made! |
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