Last post on Nov 12, 2010 at 6:29 PM
You are in the Pontiac Vibe
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Wagon
#41 of 285 must be a US thing then..
May 10, 2002 (7:07 pm)
Up here you get 5 year 100K powertrain, 8yr/130K on the catalytic and 6yr/160K corrosion on the Vibe.
May 11, 2002 (2:36 pm)
Toyota's standard warranty does not include roadside assistance. But auto-club memberships can usually be bought for about $45/yr. I think even Toyota offers one for a nominal fee.
May 12, 2002 (3:26 am)
True, standard warranty does not include Roadside Asistance, but here in Canada we get it from Toyota for free for 3 years.
May 13, 2002 (5:58 pm)
So was I vindicated? I checked, and it is true that in the U.S. Toyota has its usual 5/60 powertrain warranty on the matrix, while Pontiac only has 3/36 on the vibe. At least, that is what it advertises.
The plants are different where they are built, and the Ontario plant has received awards for build quality, as someone else pointed out.
And who wants gobs and gobs of plastic "cladding" on their car? The vibe has it, the matrix does not.
Yes, the Fremont plant was set up as a joint venture, with GM owning it and Toyota being the consultant on how it was operated. Toyota has just ended this relationship after a decade.
#45 of 285 See the June issue of Car & Driver...
May 13, 2002 (6:21 pm)
they compare 6 small hatchbacks: Suzuki Aerio, Pontiac Vibe, Ford Focus ZX5, Toyota Matrix XRS, Chrysler PT Cruiser, and Mazda Protege 5. I just listed them in descending order of their ranking in this comparison. Mazda was first; Suzuki was last.
However, if the Subaru Outback Sport had been included it probably would have even beat the Protege!
May 13, 2002 (7:05 pm)
Nippononly: Not only has Toyota NOT ended the joint venture, the JAPANESE Matrices are called Voltz and built at the Fremont, California NUMMI plant, which also builds Toyota Corollas and Toyota Tacoma pickups. The plant is a joint venture, with neither party owning it..each shares ownership and control. Toyota has invested 1.1 Billion dollars in the plant, and GM has done likewise. Note that Toyota on its website includes the NUMMI plant as one of its own: http://www.toyota.com/html/about/operations/manufacturing/manu_location/index.html
The Fremont plant has received MANY awards for build quality. I have no idea where you get your information, but you might want to consider changing sources. Here is one: http://www.nummi.com Note that the Fremont plant has received MANY J D Power and Associate awards for build quality! The plant has received the VERY difficult to obtain ISO 14001 certification. Also, from the website:
Quote: NUMMI quality continues to be among the best in the industry, having received several J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study vehicle and plant awards through the years
A list of the quality awards, again from the same website:
1994: J.D. Power and Associatesí North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
1995: J.D. Power and Associatesí North American Plant Quality: Bronze Plant award
1996: J.D. Power and Associatesí North American Plant Quality: Bronze Plant award
1999: J.D. Power and Associatesí North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
2000: J.D. Power and Associatesí North American Plant Quality: Silver Plant award
2000: J.D. Power and Associatesí Chairmanís Award for Quality.
2000: NUMMI was the first manufacturing plant ever to receive the Chairmanís Award.
#47 of 285 no question about it
May 13, 2002 (10:42 pm)
If the outback sport had been included, it would have kicked all the others in their rears!
As far as the other thing with the factories, yes what you say is true. By American plant standards, NUMMI has excelled. The Toyota news was only just published this week in Autonews - they will be ending their mentoring program with American car companies. I do not remember where I read it, but I am sure I also read that they will be phasing out corolla production there - they are building a big factory in Mexico to produce those. As far as the tacomas, that is a really good point...I do not know where they are going to be building those - maybe they will stay at NUMMI for a while. But I am pretty sure that their plans are to phase out their participation in NUMMI in short order now. Someone help me out here - I do not remember where I read that.
PS The Japan-market matrix (voltz) is built in Japan for the Japanese, it has just been such a huge hit that they are doing some "reverse importation" from Fremont in a temporary arrangement with GM to meet the demand. This is not planned to continue long term, as far as I know.
May 14, 2002 (2:51 am)
a. From the same website:
"The Voltz will be built exclusively at NUMMI and exported to Japan."
There is NO Japanese market Voltz built in Japan, so I can't see how it could be such a huge hit. And the Voltz is based on the VIBE, not the Matrix. The body is essentially the same. Both Matrix and Vibe have virtually the same interiors, interiors designed, by the way, by General Motors.
b. The NUMMI agreement was JUST renewed last year. Toyota and GM are partners in many different ways, and GM officials are often seen at the Georgetown, Kentucky plant where Camrys are built.
c. The quality of vehicles from the Fremont plant meets or exceeds that of those built in Canada (Matrix, Corolla) or Japan
d. The Mexican plant will produce vehicles for the Mexican market, not US or Canada.
All of this has been covered in great detail in the automotive industry press, most of which I subscribe to. My actual connection with the industry is best not discussed here.
The fact is, Nippononly, that Toyota and Honda are both multinational companies and as American as the so-called American automobile companies (one of which is in reality a German firm). You might want to read a Forbes article this week that discusses how nearly all future Ford and Chrysler cars will be built on platforms provided by their foreign subsidiaries, including the Ford Five Hundred, to be built on a Volvo chassis.
GM will also use its foreign subsidiaries to build the platforms, but only for its smaller cars. Its foreign companies build very few cars as large as the Bonneville, LeSabre and the Seville. On the other hand, Holden may well export whole vehicles to the US, in addition to those already announced.
#49 of 285 johnclineii
May 14, 2002 (4:12 am)
You are very right, the auto biz is very international these days. That said, the "big 3" spend much more money on R&D here in North America than do other companies and the majority of profits (at least from Ford/GM) stay here also.
In the end, you are best off just buying what you like or what you think is the best deal for the money.
#50 of 285 funny isn't it?
May 14, 2002 (7:17 am)
Just how global the car manufacturing biz has become.
These days, I think the main differences between car companies is the willingness they have to back their products.
As far as johnclineii - sorry, didn't mean to offend. Unlike you, I do not have the citations to back up my words, I am merely going from memory of what I have read, and may well be wrong. I would be surprised if Toyota went to the trouble of building a factory in mexico just to sell to Mexico - the U.S. seems to be a bigger market, and plus I was just reading about that the other day. Perhaps the mag I was reading was only speculating.
One thing that seems to be more and more true all the time is that perceptions of car models and companies based on experiences a decade old are invalid - the car industry has changed a lot. Chrysler is German now, Ford and GM both own a half dozen foreign companies and take liberally from them to build their own cars. Toyota, Honda and others have passed the point where more of their cars are built on foreign shores than on their own soil. Are they still Japanese? Maybe in philosophy, but not in build.
I will stand behind Toyota as long as they continue to back their products like they did recently when they extended their warranty to eight years/unlimited miles for all the engines affected by the sludge controversy. Yes, some of the owners had to make a fuss about it before they would step up to the plate, but this may wind up costing the company a ton of money for something which has not been conclusively proven not to be a problem of maintenance negligence. And call me one-sided, but I highly doubt that GM or Ford would have taken a similar stance. Remember the ignition switch fiasco of many different GM models going on right now? GM has stated it cannot replace all the units it admits are defective. Tough luck owners. Remember the Ford F150 fuel tank controversy - many trucks unsafe in accidents, or going up in flames, I can't remember which. Ford said tough luck, sue, then got forced to retrofit millions of vehicles when they lost the lawsuit. This was years after it had affected said millions of owners.
Based on a number of factors, I would still choose the matrix over the vibe, because I would choose Toyota over GM, and because of the styling, the longer warranty in the U.S., and other little things.