Last post on Jan 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hyundai Sonata, Coupe, Sedan
#102 of 151 SONATA VS CIVIC
May 14, 2008 (4:38 am)
I AM a Honda dealer. I will not say one bad thing about the crooked H cars, as I find them quite enjoyable. However, some facts. One, the Civic competes with the Elantra, NOT the Sonata. LX vs same type Elantra and the REAL prices are $2000 apart when factoring in rebates etc etc etc. Still, the Honda is a better VALUE. For $2000 more, you get more reliability, more safety, and more economy (CHECK CONSUMER REPORTS IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME). You get an ACE frame/sub-frame in the Honda, not avail in the other H. DRIVE them both, you will find the HONDA drives better, and FEELS better, and LOOKS better, (DRIVE THEM before thinking otherwise). Trade in. EVERY dealer is paying TOP DOLLAR for used Honda's, meaning, you CAN get KBB/Black Book on a HONDA. YOU CANNOT GET ANYTHING NEAR THAT ON A HYUNDAI. PERIOD. THERE IS NO MARKET FOR USED HYUNDAIS. PERIOD. The ONLY people buying USED crooked H cars are people with BAD credit, or "get me boughts". Dealers DO NOT pay the rediculous prices KBB spews from its webiste as "trade-in". FACT, dealers are paying THOUSANDS less than "trade-in" to buy used Hyundai's. You CAN check this out, by looking at what dealers are charging for used Hyundai's and when you do, you will see them priced retail - AT or BELOW WHOLESALE! This MEANS that they OWN the car for a lot less than that. (OFTEN $3,000 or MORE Less).
Warranty, if you want a REAL warranty, get HONDA CARE (LOOK IT UP). It is VERY inexpensive, covers the WHOLE VEHICLE, is transferable (UNLIKE the Hyundai warranty) AND if you do NOT use it, get a refund !!!!!! HONDA, not Hyundai has the BEST warranty. And, lets not forget - the company with the real BEST warranty is the one where you NEVER have to use it. (Check consumer reports reliability ratings, HONDA is #1, NOT Hyundai).
BUY AMERICAN, take a look at where your CAR is built. CIVICS are built in the US, by US workers making them a more US car than MANY "domestics".
While the Hyundai is guaranteed to get you where you are going. The HONDA does it so much better.
May 14, 2008 (4:57 am)
One more thing. ALL CARS DO NOT AGE THE SAME. One thing I love to do for "cross-shoppers" is this. I show them what a 3 or 4 or 5 or older year competitor vehicle looks like, vs a Honda from the same period. I do this because, 5 and even 10 year old Honda's look, AND DRIVE, just like they did when they were NEW. The competetion doesnt even come close. Consumers have this weird thought process going on when they read that so and so car manufacturer is "getting better", or "most improved". Its almost like they think of the car like a person, which is what the car manufacturer wants. Fact is, whatever car you buy, is NOT going to IMPROVE at all, its not going to GET BETTER, if and when someone makes a car better than HONDA, your car will NEVER be THAT car. Those words simply give HOPE that ONE day things will get better. Thats NOT how cars work, they are not students in high school that 'could' do better 2marro.
#104 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [lengalli]
May 14, 2008 (7:55 am)
Thanks for saying up front "I am a Honda dealer." That explains a lot.
It helps to stick to facts though. For example:
* Some people buy the most car they can with their budget. That pits the Sonata against the Civic, whether you like it or not. Size-wise, the Civic does compete more with Elantra, but the Elantra enjoys a big advantage in real-world price and interior room (mid-sized). The Accent actually has more interior room than the Civic. Also, CR named the Elantra SE their Top Pick in the Under $20k sedan class, over the Civic. Check CR if you don't believe me.
* As for reliability, the Sonata is one of the most reliable sedans according to CR. Civic is reliable also. A wash.
* More safety? Civic has an advantage in the IIHS side crash test (Good vs. Acceptable), but Sonata has standard ESC on all trims. I'd say that's no worse than a wash for the Sonata.
* More economy? Sure. You get higher fuel economy on a compact car with a 1.8L 140 hp engine than on a full-sized car with a 2.4L, 175 hp engine. That is the tradeoff in driving a much larger, smoother, quieter, more comfortable car. The Civic gets better FE than the Accord too--so what? (And the Sonata gets better FE than the Accord.)
* Feels better? Again you are trading off crisper handling (on a much smaller car) for considerably better ride smoothness. Yes, I've driven both. Have you?
* Looks better? That is totally subjective. I think both cars look good outside, but I much prefer the looks of the interior of the Sonata.
* There is no used market for Hyundais? That is a laughable statement.
* Warranty? Honda Care costs extra, correct? Hyundai also offers an extra-cost extended warranty that is fully transferrable and provides 100k miles of bumper-to-bumper protection.
* Buy American? Did you know the Sonata is made in America, by American workers?.
#105 of 151 Re: oh, i forgot [lengalli]
May 14, 2008 (8:01 am)
You've never owned a Hyundai, have you? I've owned two--a 2001 Elantra that is now nearly 8 years old, and a 2004 Elantra. The 2001 is owned by my sister now. She loves it and says it still drives and looks like new. And it has been very reliable. My 2004 Elantra also drives and looks new, and the biggest problem it's had in over 4 years is that I had to replace the headlamp bulbs--covered under warranty. And these Elantras are a fairly old design, not nearly as good a car as the current Sonata. Hyundais are getting better with each generation.
The day when someone makes a car that is better than Honda has already arrived. Examples: CR's Top Pick in the economy sedan class is the Elantra, not the Civic. CR's Top Pick in the mid-sized SUV class is the Santa Fe, not the CR-V or Pilot.
I recommend you take a close look at what you are competing with. You might be surprised.
#106 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [backy]
May 14, 2008 (11:29 am)
I pretty much agree with everything you say. Nice post; well-rounded.
And before anyone says otherwise, there are 3 Hondas in my driveway, zero Hyundais. Yet...
#107 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [backy]
May 14, 2008 (1:15 pm)
Apples and Oranges are both relatively round fruit. They both grow on trees. They can both be squeezed to make juices.
I find it funny that you're comparing the Elantra AND the Sonata to the Civic, whenever it suits your purpose. I also find it funny that when it comes to the engine size difference, you whitewash the argument by bringing the Accord into the mix.
Stop comparing one mid-sized vs full-sized on full-size standards. The reason Civic owners own a Civic over the competition can't be based on full size standards (e.g. larger engine, more seating room, etc.).
Compare the Civic to the Elantra, Corolla, and the Sentra. Not to the competitor's full sized sedans.
And no, there is no market for Hyundais that are used or out of warranty except for teenager's first cheap cars. I almost thought about buying a Hyundai until I saw that the True Cost To Own over 5 years is thousands higher on the Hyundai thanks to its amazingly high depreciation rate.
#108 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [backy]
May 14, 2008 (2:23 pm)
Here here backy! That dealer guy is completely clueless. My friend has a top of the line civic and it's a nice car for sure. But my sonata is just as nice and feels just as nice for the interior and driving. Also the fuel economy is only a few miles less in city and highway for a much larger car. I like Civics, but not enough to overpay for one.
Also I'd like to mention my 2003 elantra had the BEST tco ever. I paid 12.2k OTD and was cashed out after a totalled accident for $8200 for 5 years - deductible. That's a freaking $4000 depreciation for 5 years. NO civic or corolla could ever beat that. Hell no car I know of in the entire world could beat that! I know my new sonata unfortunately won't, but I'll enjoy it nonetheless. So saying that hyundai cars have no resale value is bullshit. Their depreciation is higher, but not THAT much higher.
Also I'll note my car's reliability was top notch. The only issue I ever had was a minor door seal wind noise problem. Once that was fixed, no problems in 5 years...besides my own accidents I hope for the same reliability in my new vehicle.
Honda's are nice, Hyundais are just as nice. Don't spew millions of tons of propoganda here. This is not a mormon or scientology board
#109 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [tiger72]
May 14, 2008 (2:29 pm)
I certainly compared the civic vs sonata when I was shopping. The reason I didn't include the accord was because it was way outta my price range.
This was on my list of cars to consider when I was shopping for the car I got a couple weeks ago:
There is on obvious thing in this...and that is the PRICE. I compare based on price and the Sonata is the same or less than a civic. As you'll note I had a definite interest in some of the Hondas, but the number of features and interior didn't compare to purchasing a Sonata. Why would we compare purely based on size? By that standard, you're saying a tiny Porsche shouldn't be compared against a large bmw 7 series if you were shopping in that market? I say bs on that
#110 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [thegraduate]
May 14, 2008 (3:16 pm)
Btw, you still sound interested in getting another Elantra. I'm just curious why you haven't stepped up to the Sonata yet. Imho it's a much nicer car. I just couldn't imagine going back to the 2008 Elantra because it was such a minor change over the 2003 model.
#111 of 151 Re: SONATA VS CIVIC [tiger72]
May 14, 2008 (3:58 pm)
I have a 2003 Sonata LX V6 that I bought new. At the time it was a bit of a risk, but I got it loaded with every single option you could get at the time and I still think I paid them about $20K. Great investment. I still get compliments about how sharp it looks. One of the suprises is I get 30 Mpg on the highway driving 70 MPH. I am a subscriber to Consumer Reports Magazine and the Online version. Looking at the Reliability ratings by CR the 2003 rates excellent in 5 of the 8 most crucial areas as well as very good for the remaining 3 areas that are rated. This is outstanding and clearly as Hyundai is quickly getting the respect that it deserves for being a top of the line quality builder of cars depreciation issues will take care of themselves. I am currently considering a new vehicle and in the running are the 2009 Sonata Limited V6, Ford Fusion SEL loaded, and the Chevy Malibu 2LT with the V6. I am not buying these cars because it's all I can afford, but because I'm practical and happen to very much like all three. I personally could never bring myself to buy a Honda. I think it's more because of the the high and mighty attitude that I get from owners of them. Maybe it's my loss, but I don't think so. I just get so tired of seeing the "me too" Honda Odssey being every 1 of 2 vehicles with there dull color selections on the road. I like to have something that excites me when I get in it. But that's what makes life interesting is variety and plenty of selection of cars to satisfy us all whatever our likes and dislikes might be. I'm happy you found joy in your Hondas. I just so happen to think Ford, Chevy, and Hyundai make vehicles that are exciting to drive and the differences in reliability are pretty much insignificant when compared to Toyota and Hondull. Please don't think I'm insulting you I just happen to believe that Hondas = Dull.