Last post on Jan 26, 2013 at 10:00 AM
You are in the Toyota Highlander Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Brakes, SUV
#94 of 137 Re: Highlander Hybrid brake gap NHTSA complaints [mikeg333]
Feb 10, 2010 (1:53 pm)
I believe several of us had filed this way back in 2006, I cannot recall now.
To be clear, the "skip", "lurch" or "slip" has not in anyway shortened or threatened our stopping distance. After the first few instances during Winter of 2005 (bought ours in July 2005), wife and I learned to just be decisive, keep up the pressure and ignore the "lurch". We have stopped on ice, snow, slush, sand (Death Valley), road, dirt trails, rain and ranch/farm mud and muck without problems since we have owned this car.
We have driven through the Sierras at various speeds and in various conditions from summer heat to winter snowfall with 6 or more inches on the ground. We have towed all the way through the Shasta range on HWY5 all the way from Redding into OR.
We have also towed Brenderup horse trailer and utility bed trailer onto slick grasses and dirt roads without stopping problems.
While we all dislike this "lurch", it is most likely not the same problem as the current brake-failure fiasco. Like WWest, I do not believe this is brake disengaging or not catching. I believe braking is continuing but it is the switch from regen to mechanical that is causing this "sensation". If anything, our "stopping problems" have all been related to lousy tires.
Anyway, if Toyota would use software or some other means to fix this, I would really appreciate it. It certainly would boost my confidence in Toyota a bit. As it is, Toyota's long drawn-out denial after the CHP officer crash has really soured my trust in the company. Especially given we have many friends in CA law enforcement. For our next purchase, I will be looking at alternatives. Ford is a good choice now if it offers any solid and reliable larger hybrids. We will keep our HH until it dies.
#95 of 137 Re: Highlander Hybrid brake gap NHTSA complaints [cdptrap]
Feb 10, 2010 (2:34 pm)
I still think we all should file a complaint with NHTSA now, since the timing of the complaint will be right to urge NHTSA to direct Toyota to look into the Hilander Hybrid problem as well.
If you think about it, Toyota could install accelerometers in some test vehicles, sample data from the brake, regen and the computer systems and analyze the data to evaluate the problem.
Since several of us are complaining about brake problems in HH, this should not be such an elusive problem as some reports have suggested.
#96 of 137 Re: Highlander Hybrid brake gap NHTSA complaints [merchant2]
Feb 10, 2010 (3:57 pm)
I am not disagreeing with filing at all, I think it is a good move. Was just being clear about our experience in this whole mess.
#97 of 137 Re: Highlander Hybrid brake gap NHTSA complaints [merchant2]
Feb 10, 2010 (5:11 pm)
"...file a complaint.."
And while you're there why not file a complaint about the ICE shutting down unexpectedly in certain situations. Hey, you bought a hybrid, now learn and understand, and live with, its idiosynchronies.
I have little doubt that many owners felt this same way when they first encountered ABS activation...hey, something is wrong with my car, its acting funny when I go to stop.
#98 of 137 Braking "gap"
Feb 10, 2010 (7:13 pm)
I think that the driver of a car has a right to expect that when he/she applies the brakes, there is a certain relationship between the pressure applied to the pedal and the stopping power of the braking system. When that relationship changes, in the midst of a braking episode, and does so unpredictably, that is just not right. I call it a design flaw, not an idiosyncrasy.
#99 of 137 Re: Braking "gap" [400e]
Feb 10, 2010 (8:08 pm)
Are you describing ABS, VSC, BA, EBD or e/LSD......??
All of the above fits..."does so unpredictably".
#100 of 137 Re: Braking "gap" [wwest]
Feb 10, 2010 (8:39 pm)
I should have added the term, "frequently" to "unpredictably."
In every other car I've owned with ABS and VSC (haven't had the other acronyms on prior cars), these features would kick in only very infrequently.
On my HH, at least, the braking gap happens on a daily basis, but not consistently.
#101 of 137 Re: Braking "gap" [400e]
Feb 11, 2010 (8:28 am)
With a FWD hybrid is it possible that the "gain" of the Anti-lock Braking System is increased as the climate grows colder..? ABS reacting much quicker to "impending wheel lockup" if the OAT is hovering near or around freezing...?
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure...??
Regen braking applies ONLY to the front wheels, so if the rotation rate of those front wheels starts declining too far outside the "envelope", predictive target, ABS might disable regen as a pre-emptive measure.
That certainly would account for your feeling that these events are more frequent with the HH vs non-hybirds.
#102 of 137 Re: Braking "gap" [wwest]
Feb 11, 2010 (12:53 pm)
I have never felt our non-hybrid ABS-equipped cars activating the ABS more frequently on cold days. This is true even after nights and days of low to mid 20's and driving in snow and slush. Our HiHy is the only one of our cars that does this "gap". Your hypothesis is very intriguing because my wife just made a surprising claim this morning.
She said our HH "gap" frequency has dropped significantly since switching to snow tires. This "slip/gap/lurch" normally occurs right from the first cold-morning start. The first gap almost always happen as we coast down our steep driveway. Then twice or thrice more as we hit various stop signs and traffic lights before getting on the freeway. That was the pattern earlier this winter and every winter since 2005.
Now, it rarely happens. I actually cannot remember it happening since we put on our snow tires.
Could it be that All-Season hardens in cold weather and the car is detecting something that we cannot feel in normal driving? So ABS turns on sooner as you suggest?
May be snow tires remain pliable and soft in low temperature so it is less likely to actuate the ABS?
THis is just a wild guess right now. We will try to be more alert about this and report back if we have any concrete repeatable observations.
#103 of 137 More on Braking Gap
Feb 11, 2010 (3:21 pm)
The fact is, mine is not a gap. Once the regen stops, it brakes via disk brakes only until the car is stopped. On the other hand, if I momentarily release the brakes and reapply, the regen + disk braking is back!
Since some of us have slightly different symptoms, I would guess that we have slightlt different software updates..
They should hire me! I could fix our wagons... Just kidding