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Coupes & Convertibles Pontiac GTO Pontiac GTO Strut Problems
128 messages, Last post on Nov 20, 2009 at 9:34 AM
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Interesting. Just found this out. Called Sears about tires I was supposed to put on the car today and told them i was canceling until I got this strut problem rectified. They were very helpful and told me that they would do some research for me and try to fix the problem. I told them everything I knew that I had learned mostly from your comments on this board. They said that Monroe currently lists absolutely no replacement strut or shock for the 04-05 GTO for front - only rear BUT in the Sears catelog, they show a replacement strut and shock which she is going to confirm as either active or obsolete bu she believes tat since MONROE has no current listing, it is just old info that Sears never deleted. SO..what from here? What parts do I get to restablize these struts..or do i totally replace the struts and coils with.....?? what make? Pedders? Only one shop in Houston is an authorized dealer for them and they are 50 miles from here! |
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Sears needs to get their catalog upgraded. A far superior set of struts would be Pedders comfort gas struts. They are a gas strut with comfort first and performance second in mind. The are seriously better than Monroe!. The strut bushings from GM are in fact made by Opel and are actually designed for small 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles. they are made out of 2 levels of rubber, and are seriously inferior to the Pedders strut bushings. The OE front radius rod bushings are a another matter. the OE bushings are probably 2x more expensive, and 25% effective as the Pedders units. There are plunty of Pedders systems that can exceed your driving needs and stabilize your front end
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Replying to: dmsdesign (Oct 18, 2009 6:27 pm) Like me, the people at Sears are curious to know is this all really just a huge GM FUBAR engineering and design thing. The Monroe struts that are on the car were designed for the GTO, right? It's just the bushings that are crap that is the whole problem, right? So, if I order the Pedders bushings, I am cool., right? BUT if I want to be rid of the entire issue, PEDDERS GAS STRUTS are the way to go. Any idea how much they get for them?
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Replying to: xtranaut (Oct 18, 2009 7:00 pm) i understand the the nonoptimal suspension implementation and ancient radius-rod design are factors along with others . My GTO has almost 80k miles on factory suspension and could use some new parts but is avoiding abnormal tire-wear. already had some tierods swapped. this winter i'm planning to have nearby shop fully Pedderize the car if i decide keep it for 100k & beyond (seems likely).
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Replying to: elias (Oct 19, 2009 3:55 am) The manager at discount tire knew the strut problem right away and told me his best friend took his 04 GTO to a hi-po suspension shop in Dallas and had everything replaced. He couldn’t tell me with what but it was 2 grand! Before mounting the tires, the mechanic called me out to show me a rubber spacer in the front passenger side coil. This was ironically the side with the only tire that was cupped and down to zero tread almost. Now was the spacer put in the spring because it was weak and it was intended to keep the tire from wearing or did the tire wear because of the spacer? It would be hard to understand why that tire would have been on the car for 16k miles without being rotated. I had them leave the spacer in the coil. There wasn’t one in the driver side. Neither one of us knew quite what to do or what that meant. Does anyone else?? I’ve been busy today. I contacted the svc dept of the dealership where my GTO was originally bought. I purchased it used from a Chevy dealership up the road. But I presented my case with my story and embedded links to the picture sites of worn parts, testimonials of owners of message boards who had experienced the problem, the wording of the class action suit, the NHSTA report *albeit dead end with no demand to GM), GM’s answer to the problem – an alignment (WHICH THIS DEALERSHIP DID ON MY CAR AT 389 MILES but still denies knowing of the problem) I won’t bore you with my emails to the dealership but I will give you the svc manager’s replies below. What he did say on the phone to me, that rings so truthfully in these serious matters (like exploding tires, gas tanks and sticking gas pedals) is that the NHSTA will not require a car maker to do a recall until the complaints equal a substantial ratio of the number of cars produced and on the road. Which always returns to the question in these cases, “HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO BE INJURED OR DIE BEFORE IT’S IMPORTANT ENOUGH?” HIS EMAIL RESPONSES. ==reply one Wow that’s impressive, can I get your VIN it will allow me to look into the GM information? ==reply two Which store did you purchase it from? ==reply three Our history only goes back 3 years in my system and that VIN does not pull for anything in service history. I pulled a GM inquiry and it does not have any recalls from GM and candidly very few repair made while it was under warranty. I will add that to this for your records. GM does allow me to do some Good Will but I have time and mileage constraints within that criteria, this vehicle is too old for my empowerment. Tires they draw the line at one year and 19,000. With no recalls and no open campaigns and the age it is outside of anything I can do. I will give you GM customer relations and see if they can help. PONTIAC 1/800/762/3743 == reply four Man I hear what you’re saying but my front end guy who is good by the way knows nothing about that issue. Let him go on line with GM that will take a day or so and we will get back to you ASAP **So how about that for a bunch of nothing? and in no email did I ask for TIRES. I feel like a CSI without a clue. I mean nobody recommends anybody for suspension work in Houston! Ha bizarre. So who do I trust to even look at the car to assess the condition and where to go from there? The dealer doesn’t even offer to take a look. They are brushing up on their history right now … but probably to figure out how they are going to give a thoughtful answer that sounds a lot like Schultz on Hogan’s Heroes . I KNOW NUTTTTING.
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Replying to: xtranaut (Oct 19, 2009 5:39 pm) no amount of info is too much for me. Bring It ! And thanks for including so much detail already. sounds like the delivery-dealer forgot to remove ONE of the spring-spacers that is installed for the long ocean journey! i have heard of other cases where dealer didn't know to remove them and left all 4 in place - but this is the first time i've heard of only one being left. Wow would that screw up the suspension - and especially one tire - exactly as you described. I think we have solved some if not all of the mystery here sir! Do you concur? sincerely, CSI Grissom
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Replying to: elias (Oct 20, 2009 3:41 am) From: Mark Ellison Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 8:13:42 AM There is not one PI or TSB in the system on this issue, it does not add up (SORRY FOLKS BUT WHAT DOESN'T AD UP? That GM won't take any responsbility and can make issues vanish if they want to?? my reply: This car was brought back into Carter (DEALERSHIP) on a letter from GM/PONTIAC to the ORIGINAL OWNER to correct the negative camber which they believed to be the answer for GTOs being tied down excessively during shipment. The problem turned out to be a much bigger one. Isn't it tragically evident that a whole internet full of owners with problems, a class action suit, a suspension manufacturers address to the fix to a rampant problem, and a statement of investigative status from the NHSTA, all prove that a critical and rather dangerous issue exists with 04-06 GTOs, yet the manufacturer can make it disappear? Again, just so you know that no one just made this up: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/results.cfm Does anyone wonder why a country that used to be able to boast of being best in the world, is in the toilet? Business and government -- too much greed, not enough quality and no respect - no eye on true technological advances that make real differences - and then when they fail, who bails them out? The same people who still can't get any satisfaction from the blunders they make in the blueprint of the products we purchase. This isn't the first time I have gone through such an ordeal and for all the GM products I have owned, I should be in some VIP club getting my feet kissed everytime I walk into a dealership. Of what worth is this GM cerification I have if I can't even get a dealership to honor it by checking out my suspension in the interest of having me alive and back as a customer, if for nothing else? I mean, I think I gave you more than you would take a week to find at the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS on the subject. What does it take? The problem didn't go away because GM reorganized and Pontiac was divested. It didn't go away because NHSTA didn't mandate a recall. So I think now that I have to notify the consumers affairs people, my Congressmen, every lemon watchdog organization, automotive journalists and anyone who will listen.Since you didn't offer to call the GM rep. for me, I am assuming that you guys want to distance yourselves from this and act like it never existed. I know that it doesn't matter to you, but I have lost my job and my wife has cancer and I bought this car because it had low miles and had been well taken care of and showed no adverse service history so I considered it a safe bet not to have to spend any serious repair money right out of the gate. I guess the first owner felt relieved that she got 16k miles out of it and could trade it in, not having spent a dime but seeing the beginning of the end coming. I can't get a pencil between my strut and my tire. That is where I am. Put yourself in my place and take yourself out from behind your desk and job. What if this was the treatment you were being given on the kind of issue that threatened the safety of you and your family, wouldn't you be a little upset? How about that new GM motto -- GM. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. No more American cars for me. Feel free to pass this on to Carter corporate, the Manager, GM district...whoever. I will. +++ Now the good news. I found a Pedders certified shop on the other side of Houston who is going to check my car out FOR FREE tomorrow at 1pm and tell me what I need to fix the problem. Since the Pontiac Dealership wanted to charge me $100 just to look at it (and probaby not know what they were looking for or at) I am very relieved. I noted that after I put new tires on, I had not enough room to slip a pencil between by strut and my tire so I guess I am right on time with this..I just hope it doesn't cost me a mortgage payment!
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Replying to: xtranaut (Oct 20, 2009 1:34 pm) Good that you found a pedders shop nearby. The nearest one for me is 35 miles away, tough to arrange car dropoff, but I will do it! i never did see any reason for a recall or a lawsuit. but anyone can sue for any reason in this country, of course. I think the TSB-approach taken by GM is adequate for a problem like alignment/strut-rub. there is no safety issue unless the driver doesn't inspect the cars tires. it's the drivers responsibility to ensure proper equipment and to avoid driving on underinflated or dangerously worn tires. Should GM sue the driver for failing to inspect the tires often enough? ! :|
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Replying to: elias (Oct 21, 2009 5:08 am) So, I believe it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have to check their car often for an impending disaster. That would be as stupid as knowingly purchasing a car that had a time bomb in it so every once and awhile the driver has to check it to see if the readout is getting closer to the bomb detonating! What is your only other option, remove the bomb at your own risk. Don't hold the people who put it there accountable. That is what we do in government and business in America. No accountability. I think that for a huge company like general Motors to get a 32k premium for a car, they should correct any design flaw problems before they put the car on the market. That bulletin didn't nearly touch the problem. If the parts that hold the strut in, disintegrate somewhere between purchase and 50k (like Monroe said they did) then, no alignment is going to save you from an eventual mishap. Then, will it be YOUR fault? The class action suit was filed (no dropped after GM bankruptcy) because the NHSTA wouldn't demand a recall of GM. As usual, they needed more injuries, dead bodies, and pissed off owners to justify that. For as many people who are just finding out about, or now know, that there even IS a suspension problem, there are three times as many who don't know and think everything is fine. GM and their dealers will let these people drive on down the road without saying anything. Now, even when I present my thorough research on the situation, all that the dealer can tell me is that GM doesn't know anything about anything and no recall .. further (as you saw) NO BULLETIN is a matter of record Funny, the only people NOT talking about this issue is GM Do I think GM did the best tat they could...especially when I have to go an spend near 2 grand to fix their design blunders on a vehicle their dealers wouldn't give me 13k for? No. I think they border on criminally negligent ... depending on how many more people with GTOs are injured or killed as the result them doing nothing. |
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To all fellow 04-06 GTO owners, I have been watching this board from the begining, and have posted a few comments since purchasing my 06 gto new in march, 06. I live in South Florida, and the car is babied. It has 11,600 miles, on it. Now I have the dreaded tire wear problem. passenger side, inner tread. We can all complain about this problem, but this is really a low tech problem. A little expensive to repair, but at least it can be repaired. Check other mesasge boards, there are honda transmissions which are being torn apart due to a design problem, toyotas that hesistate (many highlanders) or vibrate (many 4 runners). So, on balance, give me a low tech solveable problem, over the others. In any event, I will be doing the work myself. So I would really appreciate it if someone has a pdf of the shope procedures for rr of the front struts and radius arm front bushings, with the torque value for the nuts. Even if you don't have the shot manual, any torque values or other tips would be appreciated, and proabaly others would gain from this info. Any tips to make the rr go better would also be very worthwhile. I am planning on replacing the upper strut bushings and bearings and the front radius arm bushings, all with pedders parts. I am considering replacing the struts as well, but I would like to hear from someone who did this. The reason for keeping the original struts, is both cost as well as ability to keep current alignment, at least until i get a new set of tires, which will be after the job is done. NOTE To mike at dms, you asked that people e mail you, but you didn't provide your e mail address. Also, I called you and left a phone message on your cell. Thanks to all GTO owners who are putting up with this problem. RR70 |
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