Last post on Sep 18, 2013 at 6:11 AM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Brakes, Engine, Oil, Steering, Suspension, Transmission, Coupe, Sedan
#861 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [targettuning]
May 01, 2008 (4:32 am)
Yes, I agree. Now the question for me is if Hyundai is improving...from what, if Mazda remains Mazda, how reliable... compared to Toyota and Honda.My Mazda owning friends like them but have lots of repair/maintenance issues and their cars don't age well. The Hyundais I've driven (all pre 2008) still seem somewhat primitive to me in road feel and performance compared to Toyota/Honda. My guess is that if I were in the market for a new Civic like car today, I'd still choose the Civic. Now my other car, bought new is a 2003 Nissan Maxima 6sp. Based on the overall value and enjoyment I got from my 1995 Max (240G miles w/ no real problems just maintenance), I grabbed a deal w/o much comparison to other vehicles. I've been disappointed by what seems like obvious minor cost cutting details/quality that make it less enjoyable than the 1995. The car market is dynamic. Best, Neal
#862 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [targettuning]
May 01, 2008 (10:02 am)
I fill out the Consumer Reports form every year too. In the 2005 or 6 April issue, can't remember exactly which year, the Suspension circle for the 2002 Civic was half green. The next year after I'd sent in my CU form it was fully open, no green. I reported then that my 2002 Civic coupe, at just 3 years and 17,000 miles, had to have the struts replaced. Apparently enough people had the same problem with that area of the car for it to change the report. My next report showed the car had a problem with the Timing Belt Tensioner and the water pump. Eventually these complaints show up in the CU magazine.
#863 of 1262 Civic and Madza 3
May 01, 2008 (1:37 pm)
Own both so I know a bit about them. Both have been great with almost no issues. Prefer the Civic to the 3 in everything except power...but the 3 is the "s" version with the 2.3 liter engine, so power is a given. Cars are 2 years & 3 years respectively and are wearing quite well. The 3 has a bit cheaper feel to many of the interior appointments and just feels older than more than it's 11 months, if that makes any sense...but this is just a subjective point of view.
Will be testing the Versa, Sentra, Elantra, Focus & Corolla when we get the kids their car later on this year so should be fun. Will be their choice ultimately...all I will be needed for is the test drives, the final test drive on the final choice and lastly, the negotiations. Will be an all cash deal with no trade...possible finance if the rates are ridiculously low though.
Wish we had a 3 car garage now...lol!
#864 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [nealm]
May 02, 2008 (5:00 am)
Your question asking "if Hyundai is improving...from what?" can be answered fairly easily. Improving in the area of quality perception. Hyundai, in my opinion, has had quality products for many years but lacked the reputation of a Honda or Toyota. Now after many automotive industry awards for various aspects of quality manufacture, reliability, etc. the person who always owned Honda, Toyota and other Japanese brands and who would not be caught dead even looking at a Hyundai product has noticed (as Hyundai intended) that the average Civic EX sedan is around $21,XXX , is not particularly endowed with a lot of features that are available as standard on even the cheapest Elantra and seems to be going through ongoing quality issues. Add in the warranty for Hyundai and many owners who used to drive a Civic, Corolla, Accord, Camry etc. have bought Hyundai. Hyunda products are now every bit the equal, and even surpass various Honda and Toyota cars in all aspects of the driving/ownership experience. Oh, sure my 2006 Civic may feel sharper in steering response than an Elantra but to gain that feel the suspension is "taunt" and ride suffers. I don't hate that particular feeling but I can tell you the Elantra is much smoother, quieter, and steers just fine for me. In the end if a "go cart" feel in steering response is your fondest wish you may want the Civic but if a relaxing trip in bigger, quieter, smoother surroundings appeals to you as it does to me then an Elantra for around $17,XXX fits better. Anyhow, I seem to be writing a Hyundai commercial (I have been accused of selling them..but I do not) but the simple answer as previously stated is improved "real" quality and just as important the perception of quality
#865 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [targettuning]
May 02, 2008 (2:12 pm)
I wholeheartedly agree that Hyundai is improving and only lately being noticed by the general public. I actually test drove the Elantra recently and liked the car a great deal.
Some of the things I did like over and above the Corolla was the leather upholstery on the door handle, the Civic has regular cloth. Fog lights on the GLS Elantra, not on the LX or EX Civic.
The windshield was not near as large in the Elantra, not so prone to damage as the Civic. The price is about $2000 less for the Elantra. The Civic does seem to get marginably better gas mileage and the interior seems a little more refined.
Having said this though, my wife still insists upon a Civic. We have made an appointment to purchase a 2008 Honda EX tomorrow at Fisher Honda in Boulder, Colorado.
The only reservations I have about the Elantra are long term reliablity--after their 100,000 mile warranty expires. Are there many Hyundai's with well over 100,000 miles on them in reasonably good shape?
Hope everyone enjoys whatever car they purchase.
#866 of 1262 Honda warranty gripes
May 02, 2008 (9:20 pm)
I think it is pretty universal that 3/36 warranties are not bumper to bumper.My last Acura was true bumper to bumper and I had the drivers seat repaired at 40k miles.
Does the Hyundai 5/60 cover bumper to bumper? As soon as I got my 08 Civic
I put bright blue slip on seat covers on it to protect the cheap fabric and add
some color to the mouse gray interior.I had an ealier generation CRV and at
40k miles the drivers seat was frayed and the steering wheel was worn badly
where it had been touched so cheap materials,yes!How does a Corolla interior hold up over the years?
#867 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [targettuning]
May 03, 2008 (5:40 am)
Thanks for your reply. It reinforces the fact that there are many "good" cars to consider in this class and that each driver needs to do their due diligence and then choose the car that satisfies their priorities. When I used the term "primitive" to describe the Elantra's driving experience for me, I realize that I meant that it was softer, less precise in handling, and smoother... but these are qualities that other drivers desire. Like another poster, I would question the long term reliability of the Elantra until the data on the newer Hyundais is in. We know that Consumer Reports ranks the Civic as the best in class for achieving over 200,000 miles. That doesn't matter if you buy a new one every couple of years, but I'm a synthetic oil user who loves getting 10+ years and well over 200G out of my cars, so it's a factor that puts Toyota and Honda very much in play. Civic, Corolla/Matrix, Mazda3, Impreza, Elantra, Sentra, Focus, Rio, Astra, Rabbit/Jetta, Lancer... lots of better than decent cars for the money in this bunch, some clearly better overall than others, but each having a rational argument to purchase for a well informed buyer who really knows their specific needs and desires... sporting qualities/performance, initial value, long term value, safety, and then the highly subjective appearance and feel factors... I would never be happy with the Elantra, based on my drives, but I understand how your perception is different.
#868 of 1262 Re: HELP ADVICE PLEASE [ivtec1]
May 04, 2008 (6:22 am)
A break in additive is in your oil, so you should keep it in there until 20% but probably no more than 4-5 G miles. I would ask the Honda techs about max mileage for the first oil change based on the purpose of this additive.
#869 of 1262 Re: fair and balanced [nealm]
May 04, 2008 (9:01 am)
We know that Consumer Reports ranks the Civic as the best in class for achieving over 200,000 miles.
I don't recall CR doing an assessment on "best in class" based on ability to achieve over 200k miles--can you please provide the link or issue reference for that?
What I did see is that CR ranks the Civic and Elantra in a dead heat in their ratings, and awarded the Elantra SE their Top Pick in this class, I expect mainly because it offers standard ESC while the Civic does not. I think both are very good cars for this class, and buyers can choose based on personal preferences, e.g. a desire for crisper handling and slightly better fuel economy vs. a smoother, quieter ride and more interior room at a lower price.
#870 of 1262 We agree
May 04, 2008 (2:12 pm)
I agree. And you are right, the Civic was listed as one of the best cars to buy if you want over 200G miles. It had nothing to do with the class. I'll see if I can direct you to the list by looking through some recent past issues. I don't think any Hyundais were on the list. But it is cheaper, not known for it's engines technology. I would also consider the Civic a safer vehicle in a crash based on the compartment technology, but maybe standard ESC in the Hun negates that. Civic drivers with my preferences would put the Elantra toward the middle of the list of alternatives, a major compromise in our drive (again, I've driven a friend's 5 sp Elantra a few times). But clearly, the Elantra is a nice car for the price and a car that anyone thinking about a Civic should test drive.