Last post on Jun 28, 2009 at 6:10 PM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Forester, Mitsubishi Outlander, Wagon, SUV
Oct 28, 2005 (6:46 am)
Detroit Free Press just had an article about CR and I believe both these models were listed among the most reliable small SUVs. Good news for all.
What do the Outlander owners think of the new model just unveiled in Tokyo? It has that swept D pillar like the Murano now.
#22 of 40 Re: CR [ateixeira]
Oct 28, 2005 (7:48 am)
The new Outlander will be a good vehicle if done correctly when it comes to production. What I mean is - the Eclipse for example was an awesome looking concept, but then it comes out with either the 2.4L normally aspirated engine (too weak for this car's image), or the 3.8L (too heavy for this car IMO).
#24 of 40 Re: CR [1racefan]
Jun 29, 2006 (8:05 am)
Looks like a smaller V6 with 220hp, which sounds good. I'll probably check one out when they arrive, for kicks.
#25 of 40 No problems on my Forester!
Dec 08, 2005 (9:49 am)
I have no idea if you've made a decision yet, but I'd like to talk from personal experience . . .
I live in New England, an area where Subaru's adaptability is beyond measure. I own a 2002 Forester, which I have put on 96,000 miles since August of 2001, and I have not had a single major mechanical problem. I drive a lot of miles every day, 70 miles round trip to be exact, and I never have a problem during commute.
I know that Mitsubishi has had quality issues in the past; Subaru has always stood by their quality as #1 priority.
Just my two cents . . . xnewman1
Feb 07, 2006 (8:06 am)
You're talking about 4WD, not AWD, both in terms of heritage and the Dakar Rally. They have little in common with the AWD system in the Outlander. Nothing, actually.
AWD didn't appear until Audi pioneered it in the early 80s.
Plugs on a Legacy are very easy, I can do them in less than half that time. Your friend has it completely backwards, the plugs are harder on the Forester, since the engine bay is more narrow. It still doesn't take nearly 40 minutes, though.
Your post contains a lot of other mistakes so I don't even know where to start (DOHC was only up to '98, Forester has been SOHC since then).
Pick up a copy of CR and you'll see that the Forester is well ahead of the Outlander in reliability. In fact, Forester is one of their Good Bets among used cars for consistently being among the most reliable vehicles on the road. Outlander has never made that list.
That data is a lot more significant than the empirical data you present.
#27 of 40 Re: AWD <> 4WD [ateixeira]
Feb 07, 2006 (5:14 pm)
That really Depends on your definition of AWD then doesn't it? as AWD describes A whole bunch of Different drivetrains and many people give you different definitions and is really these days a marketing tool.
but.. if you mean AWD being a full time system then your post would contain as many mistakes as mine as Audi wasn't the first to use AWD as you suggest. Audi pioneered AWD in rally cars yes (notice that some people call the first group B Quattro 4wd) but AWD vehicles had been on the road before then (in 1966 the Jensen FF is known as the worlds first AWD production vehicle). Then in 1983 mitsubishi would have built an AWD vehicle in the Group B starion (could have made some before that but I don't know) and still are known to have considerable experience in AWD through WRC.
When I mentioned Paris-Dakar in my post It was talking about Mitsubishi's reliability in general in which the outlander does benefit from the competition. Below is a quote from an article which shows how it benefits from Mitsubishi's Rally/Raid experience.
"It speaks well for the Outlander that its chassis is stout enough to handle a 240-hp turbocharged engine in a version of the Outlander in Japan called the Airtrek. Mitsubishi has done exceptionally well in international rally and endurance racing, with the Lancer Evo and with the Pajero (sold in North America as the Montero) sport utility vehicle that has dominated the Paris-Dakar marathon race for so many years. The Outlander benefits from such body-strengthening techniques as MASH seam welding and what Mitsubishi calls its RISE design (Reinforced Impact Safety Evolution). The 2002 Lancer sedan on which the Outlander is based earned a Good rating, the highest possible, in the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety crash-testing program and was listed as the best pick in the small car class."
Plugs on a Legacy are Very Easy?? I don't think so even if you can do them in around 20mins I would hardly call that Very Easy as it only takes me 5-10 minutes, now I would call that easy.
I did not know that the forester was SOHC but the engine is still complex for a 4 cylinder and towards the end of my post I said that the reliability of the forester may be good and subaru may build reliable vehicles I was just commenting on my experience and my friends experience with their Subarus (mostly legacys).
I'm sorry but I have no Idea what a CR is so I can't really comment on the results but I can on the last line of your post. Whether that data is more significant is subjective as that data (i'm assuming some motoring magazine or survey) is also empirical (as pretty much any data you could get from a vehicle is )
#28 of 40 Re: AWD <> 4WD [oldsklgto]
Feb 07, 2006 (9:20 pm)
CR = Consumer Reports
Feb 08, 2006 (9:23 am)
I guess what I look for, when you reference racing, is some sort of commonality with the street cars. So the Impreza WRC car may have little to do with the WRX, but the Group N rally car is actually very similar, basically an STI with a roll cage.
Subaru used the Forester in Reconnaisance runs for their toughest rallies, specifically Kenya. Just this year they moved to Tribecas. So at least there is some history there. Foresters also run in SCCA Rally Cross all the time.
Audi was a pioneer whether they were first or not, because they pushed the envelope and popularized AWD cars.
Outlander gets 17/20 total stars in NHTSA tests, while Forester gets a perfect 20/20. Forester also does better in IIHS frontal and offset tests (Good and Best Pick, respectively). So the MASH and RISE acronyms really aren't that significant.
Plugs take 20 minutes if you use anti-sieze and a torque wrench to do it to exact specifications. That's not something I rush. Besides, I don't use a stop watch, since I'm doing a lot of other things at the same time (air filter, fuel filter, oil change, etc).
#30 of 40 Forester vs Outlander
Feb 09, 2006 (10:38 am)
I looked at both of these when I purchased my Outlander and I really liked both. I am a huge fan of Subaru, but didn't purchase one mainly because the Subaru dealer in my city is about 20 miles from my house, on the busiest road, and not in the best part of town.
We actually have 3 Mitsubishi dealers in my area (at least for now), and one happens to be right down the road from my workplace. The one down the street from my workplace has been around for many years, and is known in the community for having an excellent service department. The other thing I like about the Outlander is the 2.4L engine. It isn't the strongest engine in the world by any means, but it does well. I know 2 other people that have owned Mitsubishi products in the past with this same engine, and both people kept them for over 125,000 miles with no problems (and these individuals are pretty slack when it comes to maintenance).
Regarding the AWD, most of my driving has been on normal roads, but I have had it on mountain trails before and had no problems. Not once have I felt the car lose traction on any surface, nor has the rear gotten squirrelly.
If the Subaru dealer network in my local area was better, I may very well have purchased the Subaru. However, I believe no matter what brand the car is (even Honda), warranty issues will probably come up, and I don't want the added inconvenience of having to drive a long ways to get it to a dealer.