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Toyota Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid, Lexus GS 450h, Fuel System, Engine, Hybrid Cars, Future Vehicle, Hatchback, Sedan, SUV
#47 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [gagrice]
Feb 26, 2007 (11:16 am)
I am not sure of your research on battery costs. I can tell you that the last I read a traction battery for a 2001 Prius cost $5000 to replace. It would not surprise me to see a difference of $2k to $5k difference between dealers. I priced a gas gauge sensing computer for our Lexus and was Quoted prices from $253 to $556. Until I see a legitimate study where any battery technology cost is going down, I have only seen prices going up. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples as Toyota is not putting the same battery packs in all their hybrids.
CalCars has promised a PHEV Prius conversion for some time. Is it available to the consumer as of today? If so what is the cost?
Im not talking about Calcars. I was talking about replacing the orginal manufacurer equipment. I priced it about 3-5 grand. What does a gas sensing guage computer have to to battery costs? Which have been going down. Lithiun Ion battery tech is getting very old. The cost to replace the Lithium Ion battery is dropping. The new nanotechnology batteries which are very expensive. like all technology , as it matures, it become cheaper. esp when production kicks in. It costs to push the technology envelope. its cheap to rehash the some ol technology. Its cheap for auto companies to make a new full size p-u. Its expensive to make a hybrid.
#48 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [shalwechat]
Feb 26, 2007 (1:54 pm)
If you priced the Prius battery at $3k-$5k you are about on the money. They have not come down in the last 7 years. Same NiMH battery. NiMH and Li-Ion batteries for laptops have steadily gone up in price. The electronics have come down. Not the batteries. I used a Lexus part to show how dealers price parts differently. I mentioned CalCars because they are the leading proponent of PHEV, which this thread is about. Last I heard the Li-Ion package to make a PHEV out of a Prius was $10k-$12k. Has that price come down. They have used that price point for at least 3 years. Li-Ion technology may be old. It is still not ready for automotive prime time. It may never be. They have two very bad characteristics. They can combust if over charged and they have a relatively short lifespan. These are big obstacles to the 100 MPG hybrid.
#49 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [timinalaska]
Feb 28, 2007 (11:07 am)
Thats amazing since our 2007 Prius gets a dismal 32 mpg. Toyota says nothing is wrong with it either. Sorry I am now jaded about mileage claims, so I would believe it when I see 100 mpg.
I would be happy to just get the mileage stated by the factory or even 3/4 of it, certainly I expect to get more than half the specified mileage!
#50 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [gagrice]
Feb 28, 2007 (11:10 am)
"If you priced the Prius battery at $3k-$5k you are about on the money. They have not come down in the last 7 years."
seven years ago people were stating batteries were costing 8 grand to 10 grand to replace. I was born at night,..but not last night.
According to Toyota, the cost to replace the battery is $3,000 and lets throw in another 2,000 for labor...so 5 grand. and lets throw in another grand, so one can feel cheated and taken advantaged of by the stealership. Thats a new Prius battery and 3,000 for labor to install a battery.
So if the price for a battery significantly differs from Toyota's pice, one should call Toyota and tell em. Toyota designed the Prius to have easy to replace parts. They realized that auto mechanics are not eletrical engineers and the prius was design with that in mind.
" They have two very bad characteristics. They can combust if over charged and they have a relatively short lifespan. These are big obstacles to the 100 MPG hybrid."
Many batteries will explode if overcharged. A plain jane car battery will combust if its jumped the wrong way. Im sure the people at calcars have some type of state of charge computer built into their system. I know the Prius does have a state of charge computer in to promote battery life and overcrahrging and undercrarging. This is old technology and one doe not need to revinvent the wheel everytime a new ev or hybrid car comes out.
#51 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [shalwechat]
Feb 28, 2007 (12:54 pm)
"I know the Prius does have a state of charge computer in to promote battery life and overcrahrging and undercrarging. "
True, but the question is - does this same battery life technology also work on LiIon? They are notoriously bad on longevity in laptops. One of the characteristics I found in my Dell is that occasionally it had to be discharged almost fully, or battery use-life would suffer. Also, that battey is now dead; I find LiIon is good for about full 500 cycles.
I would be interested to hear from someone who has information on LiIon vs NiMh characteristics in this area.
#52 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [stevedebi]
Feb 28, 2007 (5:04 pm)
That has been my experience with my two Dell laptops since they started using Li-Ion batteries. I am sure Sony was not happy to recall a big share of the Dell laptop batteries they sold, because of the threat of fire. So it may be old technology. Is it ready for the automobile? Oh, and my 5 year old Dell laptop with a NiMH battery is still doing nearly as good as new.
To be practical the PHEV will need a storage system that can use more than 60% of the capacity, as the Toyota hybrids do.
#53 of 75 Re: Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon [shalwechat]
Feb 28, 2007 (5:22 pm)
I am not disputing the current cost of hybrid batteries. I would just like to see some solid evidence that they have come down in price. Not just bloggers popping out figures on the cost of hybrid batteries 7 years ago. The price was protected because Toyota did not want to scare people with the truth. In CA with 150k mile warranty it is kind of a non-issue until you reach 150,001 miles on your hybrid.
I do not think they have overcome the problems inherent in Li-Ion batteries to the point they will be used by Toyota to build a PHEV. That 100 MPG Prius was a gimmick car sent to Great Britain to get those folks interested in hybrids. It is not an easy sell where there are many choices of fuel efficient cars. This is discussion of PHEV so I will add this from your link.
Q: Is this the kind of battery that would be used if a plug-in hybrid system is developed?
GS: A system like that might use nickel-metal hydride or lithium ion batteries. Plug-in systems need significantly more capacity than currently exists in the batteries in our hybrids. Toyota is exploring the possibilities for plug-in hybrids, but has made no determination about them.
Q: What about the third-party suppliers who are converting Prius and some other hybrids to plug-in use?
GS: Toyota's current hybrids are not designed for larger traction batteries, and the company discourages these modifications, which void the vehicle's warranty. The conversions that I'm aware of are very costly, add significant weight to the vehicle, and have not gone through the rigors of full engineering evaluation such as brake balance, crash testing and durability.
Feb 28, 2007 (8:44 pm)
to all people who ask about priuses. Get out while you still can!!!!!! I have a 2002 prius. New computer, new fuel pump, 2 sets of new tires. New whatever the hell its called change kinetic energy to direct energy. That last thing would have been 3,400. I Am DONE. I'm starting to think Hyundai, but I'll probably go Tooyota or honda, which I should have done in first place. And I don't care what u say. They suck, suck, suck. And the last thing my people said who worked on it? It needs another set of guess what !##$#$#$#%$%%$^%^%^ tires. I'm done. while the warranty runs out.
#55 of 75 Re: MY PRIUS [urbandude42]
Feb 28, 2007 (9:08 pm)
How many miles on the car?
#56 of 75 Re: MY PRIUS [urbandude42]
Mar 01, 2007 (6:21 am)
You have my sympathy ...BUT...You speak of the 1st Generation Hybrid and not the 2nd Generation models ('04 & up). I own an '04 and have nothing but praise. Winter milage is 37-42 and summer is a pretty honest 46-48. I bought my 1st set of replacement tires (Goodrich)($200.00) 52K and have a total of 56K now on the Prius. Problems with the car ...other than 2 recalls 1) for gas tank modification) 2) Recalibrating computer, I have had only one problem with the car. Replacement of a burned-out headlight bulb that's next to impossible to do yourself. I finally took it to the dealer & let them struggle with it (20 minutes) no charge. I suppose not everyone can see the Prius as the miracle car but danged if it isn't close to it in my oppinion. One surprise I find amazing about my Prius....I'm still on the original brake pads 56K. Never had any other car go that long B/4.