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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon
74 messages, Last post on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:31 PM
You are in the Toyota Prius Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: timinalaska (Aug 30, 2006 9:41 am) Okay thats only a couple of major flaws: (1) electric cost is way off (2) electric generation not cinsidered in polution (3) battery weight increase not compensated for (4) 3-5K $ additonal cost not considered. Will a PHEV fly, yes it will 3-5% of the current hybrid buyers will buy a PHEV and hybrid buyers account for 3-5% of all new car sales. So PHEV will account for .09-.25% of all new car sales and will save the world from polution! And where or where does it say 100 mile per gallon boost for $1.00 (which by the way is priced incorrectly) ? 100 miles per gallon by not counting the electric charge or the equivalent cost to generate the eletricity. Even using their figures it cost $0.81 to go 30 miles and a gas cost of $3.00 per gallon at noraml Prius of 45 mpg. To figure out that you are getting 100 mpg actually means the following 45 mpg at $3.00 = $0.0667 per gallons use x gallons Electric cost 0.81/30 = $0.027 per gallon electric cost use y gallons 100 miles/gallon at effective $3.00 gallon = $0.03 $0.0667*x + $0.027*y = $0.03 using Y as the dependent and solving .027y = -.0667x+.03 y= ( -.0667x )/.027 + .03/.027 y =-2.47X + 1.11 The y intercept is when x= 0.44 In order to be real numbers x has to be less than 0.44 whch means that in order to achieve 100 mpg most of the power and energy has to come from the battery charge all of the time 56%. Hey i can get 99 mpg in my Accord V6 coasting to a stop in 6th gear! I think my windmill perpetual motion car will do better! MidCow P.S. I am going to solve my gas problems by winning the Shell gasoline giveaway by winning the lifetime gasoline supply.
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Aug 30, 2006 11:06 am) Southern California Edison, it is .37 per KWH, for the basic allocation, baseline. It can go higher, depending on useage, and time of day. 
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Aug 30, 2006 11:06 am) I had a little trouble following the numbers afterwards Let's try my math on your figures. " Gas mileage assuming 45 mpg at $3.00/gal =6.67cents/mile Electric cost 0.81/30 = 2.7cents/mile And now for "Mathematics - the most overrated Science" To get 100 miles/gallon at effective $3.00 gallon Is another way of saying 300 cents will get us 100 miles Let z be the number of miles driven on gas :- We will need to drive z miles  6.67c/mile And 100-z miles on battery 2.7cents/mile Then 300 = z miles at 6.67cents + (100-z miles)at 2.7 cents Thus 300 = z(6.67-2.7) + 270 Thence 300-270 = z (3.97) Whence 30/3.97 = z Hence z = 7.55667506297229219143576826196474 Ergo you would need to drive 7.5miles on gas and 92.5miles on the battery which is basically what you are saying Midcow The 7.5 miles would not warm up your engine according to gagrice so your engine gas mileage would be down by 30% meaning you would need even more miles on the battery to make 100mpg. And [5] Loss of interest on your $3-5k Phev premium had it been invested instead. T2
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Replying to: toyolla2 (Sep 04, 2006 4:25 pm) One last point. Will the extra batteries in this possible PHEV have enough power to carry the Prius to 70 MPH cruising speed without calling on the ICE? If not, it is NOT going to be worth much to most commuters. |
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First I'll answer one of the querys that Gagrice brought up in respect to recharging batteries from the ICE. Since the NiMH battery is rated 6.5 AmpHours and MG1 is allowed to perform recharging 50 amps then 6.5/50hrs or 7.8minutes is what you're looking for. Of course much less in practice because the battery is not allowed to deplete the SOC beyond 20%. And when charging by ICE cannot go above 80% SOC. Someone else can supply more exact figures. Add-on cells, as proposed here, would be also be subject to the same constraints. In fact the Prius may ignore their presence entirely since it is counting and tracking coulombs flowing in and out and not the battery voltage droop on load (which would be an indication towards end of charge). The point being that the ECU must be aware by altering some parameter in the program. Has anyone that capability outside Toyota ? Second in regard to the idea of add-on batteries see my post #118 in "Advanced Hybrid Engineering" board, it's here on Edmunds. Third there is no sensible cost effective way to get a 1500cc ICE to move much above 55mpg (in summer temperatures) by novice drivers. That includes all those who don't much care what's going on under the hood. And I'm fine with that. It is obvious to me that a smaller engine is the answer, perhaps 600cc with a turbocharger and the ECU will limit RPMs to 5000 so that the Hybrid Synergy software is still operable. Perhaps a ten year old vehicle with a blown engine would be a viable candidate. The 2009's will be out by then and we may be seeing something from Toyota in this direction. Toyota takes small steps. Perhaps they will reduce cylinders and speedup engines. Right now they are probably collecting data regarding long term engine wear (or lack of it) to make those decisions. I don't see them reaching their cost reduction goals unless they make that kind of decision. T2 |
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Also how much is it going to cost ????? Rocky |
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Does the Prius have a timing belt or chain? Ive heard that the battery cells last far longer than the 100k that Toyota says. So what sort of major maintenance is required at 100K. Belts? Hoses? Half-Shafts? If I get one I plan on 'driving it to the moon', (putting between 250K to 300k miles on it). |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 27, 2006 4:58 pm) In general inflation has been going up and up. MSRP for a new Prius is around 22,175. Thats about 1,000 or 2,000 then when it first came out. Seem to be in line with inflation for other autos. "The only reason I can see for the lighter batteries is less capacity." less capacity...The reason is for less weight or more capacity is the reson for lighter batteries. "I have not seen any credible evidence that the price of batteries for the hybrids have come down at all since their introduction." callign toyota dealerships through out the years there was been a remarketable delcine in batery costs. At first the cost wasd about 8-10 grand to replace the batteries, now its about 3-4 grand to replace the battery. "There may have been some subtle advances." those subtle advances have increase battery performance by 20% sinse they days of the EV 2. many of those subtle advances have led to lighter batteries.
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Replying to: shalwechat (Feb 26, 2007 10:06 am) CalCars has promised a PHEV Prius conversion for some time. Is it available to the consumer as of today? If so what is the cost?
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