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Toyota Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid, Lexus GS 450h, Fuel System, Engine, Hybrid Cars, Future Vehicle, Hatchback, Sedan, SUV
#19 of 75 Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids?
Jul 06, 2006 (7:56 am)
Interesting article on a "potential" battery future for Hybrids...
The great light hope for hybrid vehicles
Lithium ion could be the wonder battery that enables automakers to make big profits on hybrids
Richard Truett | | Automotive News / June 19, 2006 - 6:00 am
Batteries may be the key to the future of gasoline-electric hybrids.
If hybrids are ever going to earn automakers a profit, the cost of the batteries must decrease while the life of the battery pack increases. The number of battery suppliers also must expand so that batteries are just another commodity, like windshield wipers and headlights.
Lithium ion -- the same type of powerful, compact battery in your cell phone and digital camera -- could be the wonder battery that delivers all that and more.
Virtually all of today's hybrids use nickel-metal hydride batteries. Nickel metal has proved to be reliable, but the battery packs are heavy, and the materials inside are expensive compared with those in lithium-ion packs.
Also, most experts think that hybrid cars, such as the Toyota Prius and Ford Escape Hybrid, will need a replacement battery pack after eight years or 100,000 miles.
If so, that could hurt the resale value of used hybrids because it would present subsequent owners with a battery replacement bill of between $3,000 and $5,000.
Manufacturers in Japan, Europe and the United States are working to replace nickel-metal hydride batteries with lithium ion. The switch could begin in the United States as early as 2008.
Earlier this month, Nissan Motor Co. launched the Atlas 20 medium-duty truck in Japan with lithium-ion batteries.
Officials at Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Johnson Controls Inc. say lithium-ion batteries will begin replacing nickel-metal hydride batteries in high volume around 2010. Johnson Controls has a joint venture with French battery maker Saft Groupe SA.
"There's less weight, greater power density and, eventually, lower cost" with lithium ion, says Tom Watson, Ford's manager of hybrid propulsion systems. "We think that in the long term when you look at the cost-efficiency curve, lithium ion has much better potential than nickel metal. The benefits that it provides are just too overwhelmingly positive to pass up."
Lighter than nickel-metal batteries, improving performance and fuel economy
Enables plug-in hybrids
Production costs should fall over time
Sensitive to temperature
Can be slow to recharge
Manufacturing and shipping issues
Existing nickel-metal batteries could improve
#20 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [toyoinfo]
Jul 06, 2006 (8:38 am)
One more challenge - Lithium-ion batteries don't like to receive or deliver high currents. This is the "show stopper" they are working to fix. Regenerative braking and accelleration assist require high currents into and out of the battery.
#21 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [toyoinfo]
Jul 06, 2006 (8:49 am)
> Also, most experts think that hybrid cars, such as the Toyota Prius and Ford Escape Hybrid, will need a replacement battery pack after eight years or 100,000 miles.
Those so-called experts aren't all that smart or observant... since there are quite a few owners well in excess of 100,000 miles without any need for battery-pack replacement. It doesn't make sense either, since the warranty in some states is for 10 years / 150,000 miles.
The latest update from Jesse (a friend of mine with a Classic Prius) is having surpassed 243,000 miles with the original still.
#22 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [john1701a]
Jul 06, 2006 (12:24 pm)
Jesse (a friend of mine with a Classic Prius) is having surpassed 243,000 miles with the original still.
That is pretty darn good. Longer than I would have bet on them.
#23 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [gagrice]
Jul 23, 2006 (1:26 pm)
NiMH have been run to over 300,000 miles. The new lithium should last as long.
The new Tesla pure electric EV that was just released July 20,2006 uses lithium and they say 100,000 miles is expected.
These are not your old lead acid 100 year old technology !
#24 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [eaa]
Jul 24, 2006 (4:24 am)
The Tesla car is very interesting but it should be pointed out that the battery pack consists of thousands of off-the-shelf lithium-ion batteries used for portable electronic devices and weighs about 1000 pounds.
#25 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [idele]
Jul 24, 2006 (7:39 am)
Good point. I think some thought this car was a break through on battery technology. No one has a large size Li-ion battery that is safe to use where any heat is involved. From the price of the car it looks like battery pricing is still very high.
#26 of 75 Re: Lithium-ion batteries for Hybrids? [gagrice]
Jul 24, 2006 (8:57 am)
I thank you for starting the posts on this topic. The cost of fossil fuels in money and pollution has led to many startups for new automotive powerplants. Tesla is an example: it was funded by Silicon Valley venture capital. There are other ventures aimed at big lithium-ion batteries which can get around their operating tempurature limitations. Ultimately one wants large capacitors instead of batteries. There is big money at work on this. For example, a joint venture of Dupont in the USA and Teijin in Japan for large capacitors. And there's the important and promising research on capacitors at academic institutions such as MIT.
#27 of 75 Plug-in Priuses
Jul 24, 2006 (9:12 am)
When Jim Press announced that Toyota was working on plug-in hybrids it was treated as something new. Actually in 2005 the Toyota Dream House (mine too) that was exhibited for 6 months at that time had a complete Prius plug-in setup. Particularly interesting to me, since I get power from a rural electric coop which has its downtimes, is the use of the Prius to supply electricity to the house if needed. I refer you to this website:
#28 of 75 Re: Plug-in Priuses [idele]
Jul 24, 2006 (10:06 am)
It was "treated as new" because no one at Toyota Corporate had ever announced OFFICIALLY that Toyota was looking into PEVs as an item they would sell as a production car.
This was the first time.