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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon
74 messages, Last post on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:31 PM
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 02, 2006 1:52 pm) I stand by my statement - "The NiMh battery was never developed by GM!" Partially funded, perhaps, but that's it. This brings up an interesting point - I'm not sure there is another example of such a quick adoption of a "new invention". The development hatched the battery in 1999 and look how pervasive use of the NiMH technology has become in six short years!
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Jul 03, 2006 7:54 am) Under the terms of the memorandum of understanding, Texaco will acquire GM's 60 percent share The bottom line is the US taxpayer through Clinton's giveaway program PNGV was involved in the development of the NiMH battery. PS Texaco Cobasys (Ovonics) sued Toyota and Panasonic after GM sold their 60% to Texaco.
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Jul 02, 2006 7:57 am) I've got to remember to RTFM! The Prius battery consists of 28 modules of 6 cells each. That's 168 cells. Peak voltage will be 252 V and "average" voltage will be around 210 V. Minimum voltage would be 201.6 V, and if you measured the battery voltage and found it lower you might have some shorted or otherwise dead cells. You can estimate how many dead cells there are by dividing the difference by 1.2 V (the minimum voltage you should see across a nickle metal-hydride cell). This would be difficult unless you actually separate the 7.2 Volt modules though, as the voltage can vary depending on state of charge -of each cell-, so the battery voltage can vary more than you would think it would caused by dead cells. Bottom line of this is -if- you can buy the 7.2 V modules the battery is made of, you can "repair" a battery pack. Once it's over about 7 years of operation, this might not be a good way to go as all the cells will be getting old. Nice to know though in case there are cell failures early. As Toyota absorbs these per the warrenty, I guess they made it easy to repair. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 03, 2006 4:09 pm) I guess Texaco Ovonics is the company they interviewed (with a plant visit as well) on Motorweek last year. I think the head guy they talked to was the actual inventor. They are also into using the Nickle hydride matrix to store hydrogen at "low" pressure (100 psi instead of several thousand psi) to build "practical" hydrogen storage tanks for hydrogen powered vehicles.
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Jul 05, 2006 10:56 am) I personally would rather see a simple electric vehicle for running errands with a 50 mile range. Much easier to build and maintain. Would satisfy a lot of people's needs. As long as modifying a Prius is the only option for PHEV, I don't see that as practical. There is just too many things that can go wrong and not be covered by a warranty.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 05, 2006 11:43 am) The electric vehicle is very clean, never needs oil changes, and has many less moving parts. When the EV1 was around, it needed very little maintenance. The auto industry relies on cars needing parts, oil changes, etc, especially dealerships. I forget what the exact percentage is, but dearlerships make a large portion of revenue from their repair shops. The EV1 was very successful and had a range of about 80 miles, and 'could have' been marketed succesfully. GM and other auto makers (and oil companies) did not want electric cars around. When GM1 ended the leases to the EV1, rather than simply selling the cars to the leasees, they forced leasees to return the cars against their will. The cars then got crushed and went into the shredder. Why not just sell the EV1s that have already been driven. Toyota finally allowed some customers to keep the RAV4 EV after consumer protest against Toyota also forcing customers to return the vehicles and then crushing them. GM and other auto makers did not want anything to do with electric vehicles even when there was customer demand for them. There is more information about this at www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com and the movie is being shown throughout hundreds of theatres across the nation over July and August.
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Replying to: timinalaska (Jul 05, 2006 4:32 pm) |
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Interesting article on a "potential" battery future for Hybrids... The great light hope for hybrid vehicles Lithium ion could be the wonder battery that enables automakers to make big profits on hybrids Richard Truett | | Automotive News / June 19, 2006 - 6:00 am Batteries may be the key to the future of gasoline-electric hybrids. If hybrids are ever going to earn automakers a profit, the cost of the batteries must decrease while the life of the battery pack increases. The number of battery suppliers also must expand so that batteries are just another commodity, like windshield wipers and headlights. Lithium ion -- the same type of powerful, compact battery in your cell phone and digital camera -- could be the wonder battery that delivers all that and more. Virtually all of today's hybrids use nickel-metal hydride batteries. Nickel metal has proved to be reliable, but the battery packs are heavy, and the materials inside are expensive compared with those in lithium-ion packs. Also, most experts think that hybrid cars, such as the Toyota Prius and Ford Escape Hybrid, will need a replacement battery pack after eight years or 100,000 miles. If so, that could hurt the resale value of used hybrids because it would present subsequent owners with a battery replacement bill of between $3,000 and $5,000. Manufacturers in Japan, Europe and the United States are working to replace nickel-metal hydride batteries with lithium ion. The switch could begin in the United States as early as 2008. Earlier this month, Nissan Motor Co. launched the Atlas 20 medium-duty truck in Japan with lithium-ion batteries. Officials at Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Johnson Controls Inc. say lithium-ion batteries will begin replacing nickel-metal hydride batteries in high volume around 2010. Johnson Controls has a joint venture with French battery maker Saft Groupe SA. "There's less weight, greater power density and, eventually, lower cost" with lithium ion, says Tom Watson, Ford's manager of hybrid propulsion systems. "We think that in the long term when you look at the cost-efficiency curve, lithium ion has much better potential than nickel metal. The benefits that it provides are just too overwhelmingly positive to pass up." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lithium-ion batteries ADVANTAGES Lighter than nickel-metal batteries, improving performance and fuel economy Enables plug-in hybrids Production costs should fall over time CHALLENGES Sensitive to temperature Fragile Can be slow to recharge Manufacturing and shipping issues Existing nickel-metal batteries could improve
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Replying to: toyoinfo (Jul 06, 2006 7:56 am) |
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Replying to: toyoinfo (Jul 06, 2006 7:56 am) Those so-called experts aren't all that smart or observant... since there are quite a few owners well in excess of 100,000 miles without any need for battery-pack replacement. It doesn't make sense either, since the warranty in some states is for 10 years / 150,000 miles. The latest update from Jesse (a friend of mine with a Classic Prius) is having surpassed 243,000 miles with the original still. JOHN
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