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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Hybrid Prius that gets over 100 Miles per Gallon
74 messages, Last post on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:31 PM
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Replying to: timinalaska (Jun 27, 2006 1:03 pm) I would like to have a car I could plug in over night and use to run my errands. The modified Prius you are referring to is about a $12,000 add-on to an already over priced car. Even if gas was $5 per gallon you would never make up the difference you paid for the additional batteries. Then you add all that weight to a car that is marginal handling and you could have some serious problems. I am not saying that Toyota will not come up with a PHEV, it is highly unlikely until a better battery is invented. Good luck, I don't think Toyota pays any attention to us little people.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 27, 2006 2:11 pm) However, the reason it's so great if Toyota took this on is because the extra cost might only be $3,000 to $4,000 (instead of $12,000) due to Toyota being able to manufacture PHEVs in economies of scale. The initial battery technology has already came a long way since the first Prius was introduced a few years go. The batteries have also became less expensive. What we need is for Toyota to get on this and research and produce PHEVs so they actually are affordable. This also helps decrease our dependence on foreign oil. I believe there is enough demand that not only it will be profitable for Toyota, but also will cause the battery technology to become much more affordable. Batteries are becoming lighter as they get more advanced. The batteries are still heavy, and to the best of my knowledge, the extra gain in weight currently causes a decrease of about 5 mpg. This figure might actually be less now, as the companies are putting a lot of research bringing this figure down as much as possible. But the lower mpg is compensated by being able to plug in your Prius overnight and get 100 mpg if you're commuting to work or doing errands. As has been said, a couple companies have been able to modify the Prius into an optional plug in hybrid...imagine what Toyota can do with their engineers and their financial standing. I'm sure they could do so much more and make this technology much less expensive. Thanks! Tim p.s. It's us little people that buy the Prius' though, and Toyota will listen to us if they know more and more people would want to buy a PHEV =)
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Replying to: timinalaska (Jun 27, 2006 4:20 pm) I don't think it has. They are still using the same NiMH battery technology developed by GM for the EV-1 in 1997. The only reason I can see for the lighter batteries is less capacity. There may have been some subtle advances. Toyota also has to pay royalties for using the NiMH battery technology. I have not seen any credible evidence that the price of batteries for the hybrids have come down at all since their introduction. Hybrid car prices have only gone up, up, up. CalCars is using Li-ion batteries for their plug-in hybrid modifications. They are very expensive and have some serious problems to overcome concerning heat if over charged. Don't get me wrong I like the whole concept of an electric vehicle. I was sad that CARB pulled the carpet out from under the automaker's. I believe they would have solved most of the issues by now. I'm not sold on current hybrids, but for those that like them, it is good.
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I am going to buy one soon> 100 miles per gallon ? How long is the batteries warranty & what would the total cost be to be replaced? This needs to be calculated in hybrid v gas or diesel
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Replying to: icediablo (Jun 27, 2006 8:18 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 28, 2006 5:25 am)
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Replying to: icediablo (Jun 28, 2006 9:39 am) If I was in need of a commuter car I would consider the Civic hybrid. The Prius is a good commuter also. I just cannot get past the looks. The Prius has lots of room when you fold the back seats. The Camry Hybrid is very popular also. I just do not like that low slung look that so many cars are copying. It hinders visibility that is important to me. Good luck with your search.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 28, 2006 11:47 am) The aftermarket guys add a much larger battery (something I have often wondered about). The NiMh battery was never developed by GM! It's a design done by a separate company (who have been trying to get the car manufacturerers to listen for a few years now). The NiMh battery has been improving rapidly. Just look at the capacity increase of AA batteries over the last two years. Almost doubled! As for adding an inverter, not a good idea. Most aftermarket inverters run on 12VDC. The Prius 12V battery is tiny and you'd run the risk of discharging it rapidly - and damaging it (because it's a lead acid battery it can be damaged if discharged too much). As for heat under charge, all battery technologies heat up, but both the LiI (lithium ion) and NiMh (nickle metal hydride) seem to suffer from this a little more. An easy solution is to use coolant passed though small pipes between the battery cells. There are up to 400 cells in the Prius (500 V battery), though I suspect it's closer to 333. Lots of places for improvement. There isn't actually a lot of heat energy, so a simple free air radiator would suffice with a charger that throttles back when the temp gets too high. Oh, and there are rumours that Toyota will add "plugin" capability to the Prius in 2008. We shall see. 
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Jul 02, 2006 7:57 am) I just saw this at the opening in Los Angeles last week. It's very interesting, and it also discusses to an extent the improvement over battery technology over the last few years, and also how the Automakers have not used the best battery technology available to them. The movie's been distributed by Sony Classics, and it's well worth seeing. Thanks! Tim |
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Jul 02, 2006 7:57 am) Here is a brief bit of history concerning the NiMH battery that was developed by a GM company for the EV-1. Detroit, October 10 -- Texaco (NYSE:TX) and General Motors (NYSE:GM) today announced Texaco's intent to acquire GM's share of a joint venture that has developed an advanced battery technology for the automotive market. Under the terms of the memorandum of understanding, Texaco will acquire GM's 60 percent share of an existing joint venture with Energy Conversion Devices – ECD – (NASDAQ:ENER), a firm in which Texaco already holds a 20 percent interest. GM and Ovonic Battery Company, a subsidiary of ECD, formed the joint venture, GM Ovonic, in 1994 to manufacture and commercialize high-efficiency, nickel metal hydride (NiMH) automobile batteries. The joint venture, which will be re-named Texaco Ovonic, plans to fully commercialize and expand its applications to a broad range of energy markets. "ECD and Ovonic developed breakthrough advanced NiMH battery technology and General Motors has brought it to the production stage http://www.cobasys.com/news/PressReleases/20001010.htm OK, now onto the heart of the matter about Cobasys' long history of aggressively defending its comprehesive NiMH patent portfolio, which gives it exclusive control over worldwide NiMH battery production. I have not actually read the legal judgement against Panasonic in favor of Cobasys by the international court of arbitration because that decision was sealed and supposed to remain confidential by prior agreement of the parties, as you probably know. However numerous details of that judgement/settlement have emerged in the press, including some revealed by Cobasys itself. What we know is that the court levied a $30 million fine against Panasonic and Toyota which they had to pay to Cobasys for violation of Cobasys' NiMH patents and back-payment of royalties owed to Cobasys. NiMH History, why no PHEV
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