Last post on Oct 01, 2013 at 8:18 PM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES 350
#54 of 268 Re: JUst a thought [neutron1]
Sep 11, 2006 (2:25 am)
"I do not know at this point what the Avalon has for a timing device"
It's the same engine. All 3.5's use a chain.
#55 of 268 Re: JUst a thought [neutron1]
Sep 11, 2006 (6:13 am)
did have an opportunity to drive the new ES, the Avalon/Camry V6 sure does transform the car into something that it never has been - quick. It is, however, Avalon XLS/Ltd soft - much more so than the Av Touring or Camry XLE/SE. Not that this is bad, but it does skew that age demographic. The ES is really a luxoed Camry; the Avalon, primarily because of its size, more relative to the LS at a $25k savings. The 'L' premium for the ES, $15k over that Camry XLE. Will folks cross shop the Avalon and ES, sure - but if those potential ES buyers prefer the smaller car they also need to look at the 'full boat' Camrys.
Toyota and Lexus have never really had an engine that would compete with the Nissan VQ that appears in multiple Nissan/Infinti vehicles, or the Honda/Acura V6. Until now, of course - and it may prove to be the best engine of them all as it continues to find its way into multiple Toyota/Lexus products!
And yes, the 2GR Toyota engines are all chain driven cams, use multiple injectors (per cylinder), and have continuous variable valve timings on both the intake and exhaust sides - this is where all the power (and efficiency) comes from. A real departure from those belt driven 3 and 3.3 liter engines of the past.
#56 of 268 Re: The "value" factor [rocketdan]
Sep 11, 2006 (5:35 pm)
I think what 'gohawaiian' was trying to say is that Lexus has figured out that there is a certain price premium (obviously through market studies) that buyers are willing to pay for a Lexus badge, at least in the US. These buyers don't necessarily have to be wealthy, nor misinformed; They simply want the Lexus badge and ES350 is the lowest cost of entry into the perceived elite group. After all, keeping up with the Jones' is still a favorite pastime of many, if not all. The fact is both cars are very good, and they represent decent value in their respective segments. They both share the same engine, they are both very quiet. Lexus offers slightly nicer furniture while Avalon offers a lot more room since it rides on a longer wheelbase. From a purely engineering perspective, Toyota's actual production costs is very similar for both models. In other words, Lexus is not selling for more money because it costs more to build. Therefore, the per unit profit margin on a Lexus is higher. As long as you recognize that fact and still want to purchase a Lexus that is your decision and I applaud you for it.
#57 of 268 Put a number on the out-the-door (OTD) additional cost for the ES350
Sep 13, 2006 (4:21 pm)
Might be helpful (& interesting) to quantify the approximate OTD additional amount one will likely pay for an ES 350 with the Premium Plus package over the OTD cost of the Avalon Limited model (omitting tax, license, doc fees & any other similar local add-on charges). For example, my OTD price for a 2005 Avalon Limited, including VSC and Laser Cruise Control options, was $29.3K. Neither the Avalon nor the ES 350 includes Laser Cruise Control as standard equipment, but the Lexus does include VSC as standard equipment - so to make this an apples-to-apples comparison, I think it's reasonable to estimate that I would likely have paid approx. $29K for my car without the Laser Cruise Control (and before tax, license, etc.)
Can anyone supply comparable OTD numbers for recent purchase of an Avalon Limited or ES 350 with the Premium Plus package, that will quantify how wide the gap is between these comparably equipped cars? (It's true that the Avalon Ltd. has HID headlights as standard equipment, but the ES 350 comes with Bluetooth, power tilt & telescope column, etc. - so let's call these fairly minor equipment differences basically a "wash" cost-wise.) If you have Nav, break out the additional OTD cost for that option, so people can compare apples-to-apples, as much as possible. I'd be curious to learn whether the OTD gap is around $5K or, in fact, significantly more than that.
#58 of 268 Re: Put a number on the out-the-door (OTD) additional cost for the ES350 [gohawaiian]
Sep 13, 2006 (6:26 pm)
In answer to your question, here are the figures I used last May when I was down to choosing between the 2006 Avalon Limited and 2007 Lexus ES 350. Both had nav and similar equipment. Since I had previously bought a Lexus from this dealer, he offered me a $2K discount even before they hit the showrooms that following week. Even so, I went for the Avalon and haven't regretted it since. The $5K savings didn't hurt, either. Incidentally, both dealers are in Oregon.
2006 Avalon Limited MSRP $37,294
Avalon Invoice $33,247
Profit over invoice $300
Avalon Cost $33,547
2007 Lexus ES350 MSRP $40,749
Lexus Cost $38,749
Net Savings With Avalon $5,202
#59 of 268 Re: Put a number on the out-the-door (OTD) additional cost for the ES350 [dandydon2]
Sep 14, 2006 (2:23 pm)
That's a great comparison, since you had figures for both cars, and was right in line with my $5K "guess-timate". I wonder if other buyers will report finding an even wider price gap between these two models. I think it's quite helpful to quantify the price gap, because when buyers ask themselves "Am I getting my money's worth for the extra cost?" (which is certainly a subjective question) they should know exactly what that extra cost is.
#60 of 268 Re: Typical Avalon Drivers..... [pat]
Sep 14, 2006 (4:41 pm)
Pat, your level of Political Correctness is impressive.
#61 of 268 Re: Put a number on the out-the-door (OTD) additional cost for the ES350 [gohawaiian]
Sep 15, 2006 (5:56 pm)
One thing that hasn't been mentioned when comparing the 2 is that the Avalon is built in Kentucky while the ES is built in Japan. At the risk of sounding unpatriotic, IMO the Japan-built cars are of better quality with fewer defects.
I bought an 05 Avalon in Feb05 and have had nothing but trouble with it. So much so that I am going to look at a new ES this weekend.
This car is in fact one of the biggest lemons I've ever had. Considering my previous cars were MB E320, MB C280 and a 95 Corvette that's really saying something.
Since I've had it it has had a new axle, a new steering column, new Rear strut and now the sunroof is rattling like crazy.
So if you ask me the extra $5K is well worth it to get a good quality vehicle.
#62 of 268 Re: Toyota Avalon Limited vs. Lexus ES 350 Comparison [gohawaiian]
Sep 19, 2006 (3:54 pm)
Okay, having read all the comments I must agree the Lexus is a better car than the Avalon Limited. I have owned four Avalons ..twenty one Toyota's. The reason I bought another Avalon is SERVICE..it is unbeatable by anyones standards at my dealership in Maryland . Both cars are great, each will give you satisfaction, both have same problems, the price is about the same. The major problem as I see it is once Toyota began building in USA the quality control has dropped significantly. The last great Toyota I owned was the 1991 Cressida. However I will continue buying from my Toyota dealership...Because the care about me.
#63 of 268 Re: Toyota Avalon Limited vs. Lexus ES 350 Comparison [kbroman]
Oct 04, 2006 (10:37 am)
I have read several posts regarding the issue of Avalon vs Lexus.
I don't expect anyone to agree, just our own observations.
First we drove many hours to drive a lexus ES-350 with the premium package and all the bells and whistles. What a waste of time, the car was noisy and rough riding, yes it was pretty, but practical NO, it was difficult getting in and out of it, almost needed a shoe-horn so to speak. True we are not young, but certainly want a vehicle we be comfortable in.
Now for the final conclusion: we own an Avalon, my opinion only, we would not trade our Avalon for a new lexus, which is to say the Avalon is superior to a ES-350 sedan. Saying nothing of the savings $$$$
For those people who want the lexus Badge, all the more power to them. I hope you enjoy the vehicle, but I wonder if they considered the Avalon prior to purchasing.