Dodge Sprinter Gas Mileage

76 messages, Last post on Nov 10, 2007 at 9:03 AM

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#68 of 76 Re: Densities of gasoline and diesel fuel [jim314] by kipk Feb 04, 2007 (7:08 am)
Replying to: jim314 (Feb 03, 2007 5:44 pm) "Diesel powered cars generally have about a 40% better fuel economy than equivalent gasoline engines[1] and produce only about 69% of the greenhouse gases.... Jim, I realize your information is probably accurate according to some study somewhere. I'm just having trouble with it. Mostly from personal experience and observation. The part I don't understand is the "equivalent". Just how do we compare and make equivalent the gas and the diesel engines. Do we compare torque, horsepower, or displacement? Diesels generally will produce more torque and less horse power than an "Equal Size", displacement, gas engine. Therefore diesels of equal displacement will do more "work". However their MPG will be similar to the same displacement gas engine unless working really hard. Just reading the "Real World Mileage" over on the Dodge Ram forum, the Diesels are getting a little better than the gas, but not 40%. I know that is not a fair comparison as they are comparing trucks that "WORK" with heavier loads and weigh more. My 360 CI Ram was considerably "quicker" than a friends Cummings Turbo Diesel. Mine was a 98 and his a year or two newer. His was rated to tow considerably more. I averaged a shade over 14 daily driving and 18 road. He said he was getting about 2 better on both. Still not 40%. It does get confusing to me! Kip Replies to this message: jim314 (Feb 04, 2007 10:16 am) jim314 (Feb 05, 2007 3:43 pm)
#69 of 76 Re: Densities of gasoline and diesel fuel [kipk] by jim314 Feb 04, 2007 (10:16 am)
Replying to: kipk (Feb 04, 2007 7:08 am) I agree that there is a problem with the meaning of equivalent. We should be comparing gas and diesel engines of the same horsepower, but we don't. Torque output can be changed by gearing, power output is proportional to the product of the torque and the rpms. A diesel engine will have a lower max power rating than a gasser of the same max torque because the diesel cannot reach the same max rpms. But most diesels do get more power out of the same weight of fuel than a gasoline engine. You can find explanations of why this is so, usually cited is that air pumping resistance in the gasser is higher because gassers are "throttled" whereas diesels have no throttle restricting air flow into the cylinders; and higher thermodynamic efficiency of the diesel due to its higher compression ratio. But the fact is that most people hardly ever run their engines in passenger cars at high rpms and peak power. They drive at rpms around the torque maximum because this is fuel efficient and doesn't give the impression that the engine is straining. Under these conditions a diesel and a gasser with the same max torque rating will accelerate the car about the same. The fact that the diesel will have a much lower max hp rating than the gasser will not be evident unless you are trying to pass another vehicle on an uphill 2-lane road, or are testing 0-60mph performance. I think that in the past people who got diesels in passenger cars were looking for fuel efficiency and would accept lower hp engines which gave inferior acceleration that the gassers offered in that car. Here is a quote from an automotive engineer: ". . . look at the BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) of each engine. For example, a Cummins ISB (the Dodge Pickup engine) is rated at 0.34 lbs/hp/hr. As a comparison, the Detroit Diesel Series 60 is rated at 0.38 lbs/hp/hr and most gasoline engines are in the .48-.52lbs/hp/hr class. (Those figures are for peak torque, which is generally the most fuel efficient point.)" See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSFC But in my opinion the diesel engine in pick-up trucks do not appeal to the buyer as much on the basis of fuel efficiency, but rather high torque, fairly high horsepower (not much less than the gasoline engines offered in that truck), longevity, durability, diesel image. So the engines in diesel trucks are slower 0-60mph than gassers but not a lot slower. The diesel will be a much more expensive engine which can better tolerate continuous operation at a higher percent of max power output than the gasoline engines offered in that truck. Hence it will probably have a more durable transmission and a higher towing rating.
#70 of 76 Re: Densities of gasoline and diesel fuel [kipk] by jim314 Feb 05, 2007 (3:43 pm)
Replying to: kipk (Feb 04, 2007 7:08 am) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%A4rtsil%C3%A4-Sulzer_RTA96-C The large 2-stroke marine diesel is the most efficient reciprocating engine with BSFC of 0.28 lb/bhp-hr. Also diesels are now being produced for general aviation use. At least some of these are 2-stroke which would have the advantage that the power to weight ratio would be higher than a four stroke.
#71 of 76 Fuel additive by 2000_valk Feb 06, 2007 (4:57 pm)
Well it got down to -12. I put a light under the battery to keep it warm. And would not start . But had plenty of cranking power. Any suggestions on a fuel additive. Thanks, Tom Replies to this message: kipk (Feb 07, 2007 6:35 am) kenbaker (Feb 08, 2007 11:40 am)
#72 of 76 Re: Fuel additive [2000_valk] by kipk Feb 07, 2007 (6:35 am)
Replying to: 2000_valk (Feb 06, 2007 4:57 pm) In our ares most folks with Diesel P/Us plug in the engine block heaters if air temp gets into the teens. Don't know what they do if away from an electrical outlet! Kip
#73 of 76 Re: Fuel cost saving of diesel vs. gasoline [kenbaker] by kmarder Feb 07, 2007 (1:09 pm)
Replying to: kenbaker (Feb 01, 2007 3:08 pm) Would you mind sharing where or how it was that you got your Sprinter at a $7k discount? I'm looking to buy one now, and they're selling for a premium. Replies to this message: kenbaker (Feb 08, 2007 11:30 am)
#74 of 76 Re: Fuel cost saving of diesel vs. gasoline [kmarder] by kenbaker Feb 08, 2007 (11:30 am)
Replying to: kmarder (Feb 07, 2007 1:09 pm) Oklahoma... got a dealer van (passenger, 624 miles) that was in stock on spec. Bought 2004 model in 2005. The Sprinter has not caught on here yet for passenger use. I see alot for businesses, especially delivery, medical, Cleaning companies, etc. Not very many passenger vans though. Special order is just not going to get you a discount anywhere that I know of. We also don't see them going for a premium here either. That may change with 2007 models. I was assured by the dealer that I could have taken mine up North or to Florida and have made a profit on it... I am pretty sure he was right. Apples for apples to Ford/GMC it is not really higher... 3/4 ton, diesel, high roof, 10 passenger, long oil change intervals, MPG, etc. If you find all of these in a FORD I know it will cost MORE than the Sprinter. My dad has a FORD that matches all but the high roof and even that van was about $45K list ($36K used with about 20K miles on it). My Sprinter LISTED for $37K+ and I paid $30K (plus a 500 dollar transport fee). Any idea how much it costs to add aftermarket high-roof to a FORD or GMC van? Oh yeah, the local Mercedes Owners Club wants me to join... I've put it back in Mercedes trim as it was supposed to be born and it is a bit of a novelty to them. thanks, KenB
#75 of 76 Re: Fuel additive [2000_valk] by kenbaker Feb 08, 2007 (11:40 am)
Replying to: 2000_valk (Feb 06, 2007 4:57 pm) Power Service (white bottle, red and black lettering)... 8-16 ounces per full tank in Sprinter will supposedly get you down to well below 0F (I think about -20F). I have only been down to about 12F above, but no problems using the treatment. More likely, you need the heat on the fuel filter instead of on the battery. Other Power Service diesel additives are for other conditions/purposes (silver/gray bottle, for example, is Cetane Boost). Power Service treatments are advertised to be equivalent to standard diesel in fuel tests (for warranty purposes). I think this was #2 Diesel and free of sulfur (yet lubricating), but I don't have a bottle in front of me as I write this. thanks, KenB
#76 of 76 04' sprinter and bio-diesel by onwhidbey Nov 10, 2007 (9:03 am)
Hey-has anyone run their sprinter(mines an '04)on bio-diesel, either straight or a percentage in regular diesel? Thanks