Last post on Mar 07, 2011 at 3:52 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Malibu
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Camry, Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#592 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [imidazol97]
Jul 11, 2009 (8:24 am)
"One thing that has to change is judging cars based on the past a whole decade or two ago."
Good post. I totally agree with everything that you wrote.
If you talk to GMC and Chevy dealers, they will tell you that one of the most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars being inherently less reliable and a poor value. Like you said, too many people cling to market perceptions from the 80s and 90's, even when Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, and a host of rating services give many GM vehicles very high marks and recommendations. It's tragic how people fixate on a GM mechanical problem and punish GM, but ignore numerous problems in Hondas... like the transmission problems that you mentioned. It isn't rational.
What does it say about the quality and intelligence of a person who goes through life relying on decades old information and not learning anything new? Intelligent people grow and improve. So do companies.
The engineering science of building cars has become so automated, repeatable, and studied that the quality difference between a top rated car and an average rated car is measured by .8 defects per vehicle vs 1.4 defects per vehicle. Either way, you're likely to have 1 problem. The difference is not significant.
I completely understand why someone would buy an Accord, especially given that the Accord is roomier and has excellent ride quality, comfort etc. I like the Accord also and could easily drive it.
But I decided to research vehicles and buy the one that was the best value. It was an easy decision when the Malibu cost thousands less, is faster, has better braking, is quieter, has a better warranty, and has more luxury options (like satellite radio, bluetooth, OnStar navigation) for the price.
Even if the Malibu's Total Cost of Ownership ends up being higher over five years, I will have five years of driving pleasure from a car that is quieter, smoother, faster, and has lots of luxury features that make endless Washington DC traffic jams (second worst in the entire nation) more bearable.
I've been generally dismissive of American cars for a long time. But, if GM makes a quality vehicle, I will reward them by buying their vehicles and I won't make my decision based on something that happened in 1994.
#593 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [anon3]
Jul 11, 2009 (8:46 am)
>most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars
It's always odd that Toyota's sludge and engine/transmission hesitations along with Honda's VCM and transmission failures along with road noise don't get played up like the past GM's problems that some found.
Cars need to be judged on what they offer in the current and forth-coming models.
#594 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [anon3]
Jul 11, 2009 (9:22 am)
I wonder what all the Honda people think of the media lambasting the new Insight. I sounds like it was made by Yugo. Makes me wonder what the rest of the HOndas are made of.
#595 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [imidazol97]
Jul 11, 2009 (10:54 am)
>most frustrating problems that they face is legacy market perception about GM cars
I feel sorry for the Chevy salesman, but who created this "perception"? The "perception" I think is based on facts (cars that simply didn't measure up to the competition). Market perception has nothing to do with my opinion. The reality of owning and driving Accords and Malibus myself, has created my "perception" of them. As far as Consumer Reports and JD Powers in concerned, they had the 2001 Malibu as a "Recommended" car. I would not recommend that car to anyone. It seems "average" reliability, poor quality, and cheap materials, is good enough for CR. Not good enough for me.
#596 of 804 Re: bvdj84
Jul 12, 2009 (5:45 am)
Nice thing about honda now, is that I can still lease a loaded Accord. A good clean lease deal can be had. Lease turn in is so simple too. I have traded my Accord with minimal negative equity. Which cannot be had on a GM car now. Even in the most perfect condition. I cannot go lease a new Malibu for that cheap or at all. GM didn't just all of a sudden become pretty, you cannot always judge a book by its cover either. The only reason they are creating this new look or perception is because they are bankrupt and don't have a choice. Bankruptcy alone for me is reason enough to stay away at this point. GM has only recently improved in quality, it will take time to prove they have what it takes to be on par with the others. I would say they are getting there now.
So, considering the new Malibu is night and day different in terms of build and quality compared to the previous model would be too quick to say. It could go both ways. I am not sure. Time will only tell. It is a very sharp looking car with a great offering for the money. I can see why people like them.
I am certainly not going to bash anyone for driving one either. I will most definitely be impressed by the car if you drive by. I like a lot of cars, but which ones I would drive is my opinion. Heck, I think this Saturn Aura that drives locally here is one sharp looking car. Would I ever get one? No. That is just me.
So, I guess at this point it could go both ways. Perhaps GM will prove to do some great things! But, ask yourself this.....would GM be trying to change or doing the improvements now if they weren't forced to do so? Will they uphold these goals when no one is looking?
#597 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [bvdj84]
Jul 12, 2009 (5:52 am)
How does a cat. converter go bad at 15K?, if it clogged up then there is an engine management issue that caused way to much unburned fuel into the exhaust system. Don't know how you got stuck with rentals to replace a window switch, those can be replaced in about 5 min. My Malibu is now 4.5 yrs. old and it's soul is just fine!, no major repairs and I'm still running on the original brake pads. Now I'll admit it's value is less than a 4.5 year old Accord, but that is irrelevant to me as I have no plans to trade it until 10 yrs. old and I paid 21K for a car with V6, leather, sunroof, XM, ABS, alloys, P. seats, homelink, remote start w/auto digital climate control, ect. Try getting an Accord loaded like that and your closer to 30K.
#598 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [butch100]
Jul 12, 2009 (6:07 am)
Well, it did, I am truly believe the converter was bad to begin with. It ran weird, I took it in, they called me up and stated that the converter was bad. They replaced it. Its on my invoice too. I didn't have rentals for the windows, but the other times when trying to diagnose the performance issues.
The engine is still not running right. The transmission is a bit off. The gas mileage has improved since the new converter. Perhaps a bit more power, but still acts weird. Its intermittently happening. GM stated they'll back their warranty, well, I will use it. I think I have ran up about $1,500 or so in warranty bills. Over silly stuff. Never had that with my Accord or my other 2 VW leases. I do not have time to play games. I work to hard and pay too much to be messed around with.
But, no car is perfect. But, this is my first GM car too.
With great deals out, you really don't have to pay $30k for a Honda. I lease, so soon I will have a new car. I will look closely at the new Accord, Acura TSX, VW, or even a new camry.
#599 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [butch100]
Jul 12, 2009 (7:51 am)
Now I'll admit it's value is less than a 4.5 year old Accord, but that is irrelevant to me as I have no plans to trade it until 10 yrs.
It will still be relevant. A 10 year old Accord will still be worth a couple thousand more than a 10 year old Malibu.
#600 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [elroy5]
Jul 12, 2009 (8:06 am)
I'm betting too that you paid at least 2K more for the Accord than you would have the Malibu.
#601 of 804 Re: bvdj84 [dmathews3]
Jul 12, 2009 (10:12 am)
Sure, but I think the Accord is worth more. When you sell one, you find out most people looking for a used car agree. Just pointing out that you can recoup some (not all) of the higher purchase price, when you sell it. People think a 10 year old car is not worth much, but I got $5,000 for my 12 year old Accord, with 140k miles on it. It would be difficult to get $3000 for a Malibu that old with that many miles on it. Check the prices of 10 year old used Accords and Malibus, and you will still see a substantial difference in the average asking price.