- #573 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [bvdj84]
by cooterbfd
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Jul 05, 2009 (8:15 am)
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Replying to: bvdj84 (Jul 05, 2009 7:15 am)
Oh, no. While the 2.4L is a carryover, the 6 sp auto and 3.6L v6 are new to the model. The V6 generally gets good reviews for an engine.
Where I think GM is missing it is the fact that while Toyota and Honda use 1 car for the $20-30K midsize price range (MSRP) Chevy uses 2. You can find a $30K Camry or Accord, but not a Malibu. That price range is left to the Impala, and that car sits on an antiquated platform. So, the Camcord can outclass it's GM competition on the high end with features, AND lay claim to the best selling models each year, because they use one model. I don't know about the last couple of years, but up to a couple years ago, Chevy was selling more cars in that category, just spread over 2 models (Malibu and Impala) instead of 1 (Camry or Accord).
So, the imports score on 2 fronts; Better equiping the high end ($24K and up) versions, plus having a more refined driveline on the lower end, AND the perception that they "must be better because they sell more" which they didn't, because it was spread over 2 models.
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- #574 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [cooterbfd]
by elroy5
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Jul 05, 2009 (12:44 pm)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jul 05, 2009 8:15 am)
I think, if you subtracted the fleet sales of the Impala, and Malibu (which are considerable), I they would still come up short, as far as consumer sales, compared to the Accord. It would probably be pretty close. I don't think sales numbers mean much in the "which car is better" debate any way. The fact is people will pay more for an Accord, because they think it's a better built car. I agree with this perception, but I know some people don't. They only way I will really be convinced the Malibu is much improved, is if I bought one myself. I'm not willing to take that chance right now.
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- #575 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [elroy5]
by dmathews3
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Jul 05, 2009 (1:00 pm)
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Replying to: elroy5 (Jul 05, 2009 12:44 pm)
After seeing the blast from many mags and rags and now Consumers Reports on the Insight Hybrid on what a piece of junk it is and CHEAP besides I sure have lost a lot of respect of Honda. As I'm old enough to remember the cheap junk they brought to America many years ago and how long it took them to even make something buyable they sure have taken 2 steps back in my humble opinion.
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- #576 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [cooterbfd]
by bvdj84
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Jul 05, 2009 (3:59 pm)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jul 05, 2009 8:15 am)
I have driven the new GM 4cyl engine. However, I was still less than satisfied. It was not inspiring. Even, the Manual shifting option did not add any more excitement. It was like pulling teeth to give me any excitement. I was taken off guard too, as I thought that at the least it would do something for me. The drive line is still a bit rough, and a bit unpredictable. Where is the torque? The 4cyl doesn't feel like it wants to wind up at all. Perhaps this is why so many opt for the V6?
I do agree that I am not willing to give GM another chance after my lease is up. Why take that kind of risk? I have already driven the new engine, that is the best they could come up with? I know some people love their GM cars, or a big fan of them, but you can't honestly tell me you would pick the 4cyl GM engine over say an Accord engine or VW 5cyl, or the 2.0T engine. Which would both would blow the doors off the 4cyl GM engine. I know it would. Both getting similar or better mileage.
Verdict-the GM 4cyl engine=BORING and moody
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- #577 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [bvdj84]
by dmathews3
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Jul 05, 2009 (4:06 pm)
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Replying to: bvdj84 (Jul 05, 2009 3:59 pm)
Yes I would, why because I'm American and am willing to back GM, an american company that has done more for me than Toyota or Honda. What have they done for you besides Pearl Harbor.
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- #578 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [dmathews3]
by wayne52
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Jul 05, 2009 (4:35 pm)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Jul 05, 2009 4:06 pm)
What have Toyota or Honda done for ME besides Pearl Harbor? Like most Japanese companies, they brought me high quality, low cost, reliable products. I owned 4 UAW built cars in ten years and had NOTHING but trouble. I've owned my honda for the past ten years and have pretty much been trouble free. It is the longest I've ever owned a car! I'm not sure why you mention Pearl Harbor. Mitsubishi built the Japanese Zero, not Toyota or Honda, and the war has been over for quite some time. What have american auto manufacturers done for ME? To lightly touch the subject, they have built crap and overpaid their employees (management and line workers) to the extent that they broke the companies and now require MY money to bail them out of the mess. Toyota and Honda build cars in the US (non-UAW plants) that have a reputation of being high quality, low cost, and reliable. Hyundai and Mercedes and probably a few other companies do the same thing in the USA. And I don't hold the Nazis responsible for mercedes, either (same war as Pearl Harbor, just a different location).
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- #579 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [wayne52]
by dmathews3
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Jul 05, 2009 (6:15 pm)
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Replying to: wayne52 (Jul 05, 2009 4:35 pm)
Well lets see, I had a 240Z that caused me nothing but trouble from the radiator rubbing on theframe and needed replaced, Rabbit that was a piece of crap, wife had a 04 Honda Van that needed a new tranny, and she has a STS built in America that the only problem was the Navigation unit which is built by a German company 1/2 owned by Toyota so does that mean the STS being American built is a piece of junk. I have had maybe 30 american cars and yes they have had problems all little nothing like a new tranny or radiator. The american cars are just as good as anybody elses and it helps our country. But I'm sure the people of Japan with there good schools, roads, etc are happy that your money is keeping them well equiped why our country goes down the tubes. There still must be a lot of Americans that think our cars are better than the Japs since we still out sell them all.
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- #580 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [dmathews3]
by thegraduate
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Jul 05, 2009 (6:20 pm)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Jul 05, 2009 4:06 pm)
Pearl Harbor has nothing to do with this forum, which is about the Camry, Malibu, and Accord, their pros, cons, and attributes.
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- #581 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [thegraduate]
by wayne52
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Jul 05, 2009 (7:57 pm)
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Replying to: thegraduate (Jul 05, 2009 6:20 pm)
Couldn't agree more. The "underlying tone" of this thread could probably best be described as follows:
For many years, GM has had a reputation for building "subpar vehicles". Can the newly designed malibu compete on a level with japanese auto manufactures known for quality and reliability?
Can they / do they now produce a vehicle that can compete with the best the japanese have to offer in this class? I drove one malibu. It has a fine interior. In no way up to accord standards, but nothing like the typical cheap hard plastics that characterized GM for many years. I drove the 4 cylinder and found it to be disappointing, but have not driven the 6 cylinder. I believe the japanese have left a door open for GM. Camry has some fit and finish problems and issues with their transmissions. Honda has (6 cylinder) issues with their Variable Cylinder Management and back brakes. The long term reliability and resale of the japanese make their offerings quite appealing. I think GM has a very hard job ahead of them in convincing the public that they are beyond the "crap" they've produced for years and can now produce a vehicle in this class that will be reliable over the long run and hold its value when it comes time to sell or trade it. I've driven all three and as an accord owner I would rank them in the following order: camry, accord, malibu. I would strongly consider the two japanese vehicles, but it is my belief the malibu is not quite up to the level of the camry and accord at this time.
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- #582 of 643
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Re: bvdj84 [wayne52]
by thegraduate
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Jul 05, 2009 (8:12 pm)
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Replying to: wayne52 (Jul 05, 2009 7:57 pm)
To sum up your post (I think), GM = making great strides, Honyota = marking time at best. I agree completely. I don't personally feel that the Accord got any better with the current generation over the previous one. The problem for GM there is/was that the Malibu was easily a couple of generations behind quality-wise, so even though it improved drastically from 2007 to 2008 and Honda did not, Honda still holds the edge simply because of how far ahead they had stayed over the years, and really didn't trail-off (each gen had a couple of issues, but never had that "falling apart" feeling that the last G6 I drove had). Now, Chevy's overcoming that, and I'm glad. Competition is great for customers. I drive a 2006 Accord, but feel confident if my car was totaled tomorrow, it wouldn't be replaced with a 2009 Accord.
There's a blue-oval and a slanted H making some big strides too that I'm not sure Honda or Toyota see coming as well...
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