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The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol

921 messages,  Last post on Oct 07, 2009 at 10:53 AM

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#774 of 921 Re: #772 and #773 by cvs20 May 25, 2009 (4:25 pm)
When things get really bad, we could use 1 acre of land for food, and one to drink! Replies to this message: gagrice (May 25, 2009 5:19 pm) cvs20 (May 26, 2009 5:24 pm)
#775 of 921 Re: What amazes me [pf_flyer] by cvs20 May 25, 2009 (4:35 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (May 25, 2009 6:45 am) That's exactly what my Mechanical Engineering research showed, but did anyone ever read it or use it (it was done for the Associate Dean, who was my Senior Project Advisor.   My question to the corn-based proponents is: what fuel do you use to produce the corn, and to make the equipment, etc??   Don't even get me STARTED on the hydrogen debacle!
#776 of 921 Re: One of the pluses... [bpizzuti] by cvs20 May 25, 2009 (4:54 pm)
Replying to: bpizzuti (May 25, 2009 8:13 am) Bio-Diesel is a viable contender, but also has some baggage. Diesel engines require compression ratios between 14 : 1 and 25 : 1. The extreme pressures require stronger, and most likely heavier, engines and components, and more weight requires more fuel.   One possible configuration for vehicles might be to copy the railroads on a smaller scale. The Diesel-electric configuration of most railroad traction motors uses Diesel engines to drive generators which, in turn, apply power to electric drive motors. The beauty of that is that the generator-to-motor energy transmission can approach 60% efficiency (that is, each 100 revolutions of the generator can cause 60 revolutions at each drive motor.   That's the main reason steam trains are mostly history - just can't compete.
#777 of 921 Re: No pluses and a Net Negative [morin2] by cvs20 May 25, 2009 (5:18 pm)
Replying to: morin2 (May 25, 2009 9:59 am) Yeah, alcohol is corrosive to unprotected steel parts, and also is hazardous to most common, low priced, seals and other elastomer components. Tends to leach out the "plasticizers" leaving the parts brittle.   It is also hygroscopic (absorbs water and often used to clean up accumulated fuel tank water), but then is quickly burned through the engine with little to no residue, but a tank full including absorbed water will further reduce economy.   Theoretically, E10 performance should be 95% that of gasoline. Which means that my well designed 30 mpg car should only get 28.5 mpg with E10. This is where I DO run many times on the highway. Sometimes it drops to around 27 mpg, and that REALLY ticks me because I got stuck with expensive watered-down blended fuel !!!   It takes 1.50 gallons of ethanol (E100) to equal 1 gallon of gasoline. It takes 2.00 gallons of methanol (M100) to do the same.   Best thing about either is you can extinguish a fire using only water !!
#778 of 921 Re: #772 and #773 [cvs20] by gagrice May 25, 2009 (5:19 pm)
Replying to: cvs20 (May 25, 2009 4:25 pm) When things get really bad, we could use 1 acre of land for food, and one to drink!   Sadly the price of exporting corn to Mexico is so high that the farmers are digging up the blue agave and planting corn. No blue agave no good tequila. Now if that ain't a serious problem I don't know what is. Replies to this message: cvs20 (May 26, 2009 5:24 pm)
#779 of 921 Re: What amazes me [pf_flyer] by colloquor May 26, 2009 (6:27 am)
Replying to: pf_flyer (May 25, 2009 6:45 am) FWIW... here in central Illinois, 10% ethanol blended gas has been around since the mid-80s. It's almost impossible to buy gas in this area without 10% ethanol. Only one station that I was aware of in the Champaign-Urbana area offered non-ethanol blended gasoline, and now that station has switched to 10% ethanol blend too. For most of midwesterners, 10% ethanol blended gas is a way of life, and has been for over 2 decades. Replies to this message: gagrice (May 26, 2009 7:03 am) jkinzel (May 26, 2009 8:23 am) gagrice (May 26, 2009 1:49 pm) jkinzel (May 26, 2009 3:43 pm) morin2 (May 26, 2009 6:56 pm)
#780 of 921 Re: What amazes me [colloquor] by gagrice May 26, 2009 (7:03 am)
Replying to: colloquor (May 26, 2009 6:27 am) In the late 1970s they were lacing gas with ethanol in MN. We know how that experiment ended in the early 1980s. 90+ towns devastated by closing the Corn Ethanol stills and laying off 100s of workers.
#781 of 921 Re: What amazes me [colloquor] by jkinzel May 26, 2009 (8:23 am)
Replying to: colloquor (May 26, 2009 6:27 am) 10% ethanol blended gas is a way of life,   10% ethanol is also a way of life in the state of Washington thanks to the dictatorship of our Governor. If I could find pure gasoline, I would drive some distance to get it. Replies to this message: gagrice (May 26, 2009 1:49 pm) jkinzel (May 26, 2009 3:43 pm) morin2 (May 26, 2009 6:56 pm)
#782 of 921 Re: What amazes me [jkinzel] by gagrice May 26, 2009 (1:49 pm)
Replying to: jkinzel (May 26, 2009 8:23 am) Luckily you have a diesel car to beat the odds on ethanol laced gas. Replies to this message: jkinzel (May 26, 2009 3:43 pm)
#783 of 921 Re: What amazes me [gagrice] by jkinzel May 26, 2009 (3:43 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (May 26, 2009 1:49 pm) Yes, it is nice to have a choice in gas or diesel, but I would still like to have a source of pure gas to run the mowers, chainsaw, etc. and yes, put in the car.

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