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Hybrid Vehicles Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol
921 messages, Last post on Oct 07, 2009 at 10:53 AM
You are in the Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 01, 2007 7:36 am) You don't even have to put E85 in your tank --- just buying an FFV means you're doing your part! The whole FFV/CAFE credit thing is a bunch of BS that has no real effect on saving fuel. |
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Replying to: easym1 (Jun 04, 2007 11:13 am) Brazilian ethanol history Brazil's military dictatorship launched the national ethanol program in 1975, when about 90 percent of its fuel consumption depended on foreign oil. The government offered subsidies to sugar cane growers and forced service stations in every town of at least 1,500 people to install ethanol pumps. By the early 1980s, almost all new cars sold in Brazil ran on 100 percent ethanol. But as the decade progressed and the military government was replaced by democracy, oil prices plummeted and the subsidies granted to ethanol producers were eliminated. Sugar processing plants turned from ethanol to edible sugar, creating a shortage of supplies at service stations. The auto industry, which had dedicated itself to ethanol-only cars, stopped producing them almost entirely. "It was as if from one day to the next, the people who had ethanol cars had a problem on their hands, because no one wanted to buy them," said Henry Joseph Jr., head of the engineering program for Volkswagen of Brazil. "Ethanol cars went all the way from more than 90 percent of sales to less than 1 percent."
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 04, 2007 1:42 pm) Again, having another alternative is better than having none. If the terrorist starts attacking major oil producers, we will surely take whatever option available. Most of our new technology are still in it's infancy..but it's better to work on it now, address all the kinks and hope for the best. One way or another, some of these technologies and alternatives will be developed and will find its way to the average consumers. We are currently in the process of evolution regarding alternatives to fuel. Any good ideas out there is better than none. With new technology and great minds, we can improve on not only what Brazil has done as one, but on many new alternatives that are out there.
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Replying to: easym1 (Jun 05, 2007 9:38 am) Why is not the same enthusiasm and vigor being put into the development of bio-diesel as into ethanol as a mainstream alternative fuel? Why are the domestic auto makers so adamant about not introducing diesel passenger cars into the American market place and instead touting ethanol FFV? Let me give some hints; Conagra, ADM, and most of the big grain companies stand to make huge profits from ethanol. It’s a cheap way for the domestic and foreign auto makes to comply to the CAFÉ standards. Ethanol is not what’s good for the country or cutting back on imported oil. It’s not what’s right for the consumer or reducing pollution. It’s all about the money. Ethanol has been marketed to the consumer as a way to save fuel and the planet when in reality it’s about big profits for ADM, Conagra and the auto makers. Ethanol might work in Brazil, but frankly I can’t recall the time I drove past a sugar cane field. |
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Replying to: jkinzel (Jun 05, 2007 10:46 am) Well, the consumer loses, but we don't count. |
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by this idea that we need to try something - anything - approach. We do need to try something. We do NOT need to try every darn little thing that might come along. Had we taken the tax dollars that you and I invested in ethanol and instead applied it to further diesel technology, electric vehicle technology, nuclear fusion, solar electric... we would be that farther ahead. If there is an attack on the oil suppliers there will be zero relief from domestic ethanol because it barely produces the power used to create it. The more likely scenario is that in such a case the production of ethanol would be curtailed if not outright banned as a waste of precious fuel. As we've said earlier, ethanol is not some new, promising fuel. It predates the Model T which could and sometimes did run on ethanol. It wasn't used because it was too expensive. That still holds. Try biodiesel. Much better idea. GM and Ford are going to regret not having a diesel car program now.
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Replying to: fezo (Jun 05, 2007 11:12 am)
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Replying to: texases (Jun 05, 2007 11:24 am) |
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Replying to: jkinzel (Jun 05, 2007 10:46 am) 'With new technology and great minds, we can improve on not only what Brazil has done as one, but on many new alternatives that are out there.' This includes your diesels, bio-diesels, electric, solar, hydrogen, hybrids etc...or a type of NANO technology could also be in the horizon. |
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Replying to: easym1 (Jun 05, 2007 12:10 pm)
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