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Hybrid Vehicles Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol
921 messages, Last post on Oct 07, 2009 at 10:53 AM
You are in the Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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What, another ethanol apologists' ramblings? Don't think so. The ethanol program, as currently implemented in the US, has increased all grain and food prices through crop shifts, and is doing nothing for energy self sufficiency. P.S. Sorry, this idiot isn't shutting up... 
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Unlike corn ethanol that uses about as much fossil fuel as it replaces, Sorghum may be a good alternative. A sugary sap inside the plant's stalk, which grow as tall as 12 feet, can be turned into a potent biofuel, and experts and companies are studying its potential with hopes that farmers will want to plant more of it. Ethanol made from the stalk's juice has four times the energy yield of the corn-based ethanol, which is already in the marketplace unlike sweet sorghum. Sweet sorghum produces about eight units of energy for every unit of energy used in its production. That's about the same as sugarcane but four times as much as corn. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_re_us/farm_scene_sweet_sorghum_ethanol-
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Replying to: gagrice (May 14, 2008 6:00 am)
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 14, 2008 6:32 am) |
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Gagrice did none of those statistics make any sense to you. The gorilla in this room is OIL!!! Ethanol only took 3.3 billion bushels of the 13.3 billion we produced. There is more corn available right now than there was at this time last year. Soybeans are also a major cause of the rise in corn prices, beans are at an all time low with the price being driven everyday by the crude market which is directly correlated to soybean oil. Oil is the driver behind this rapid increase. Ethanol has had a slight increase but use yesterday as an example. Oil was up $2 a barrel, Soybeans were up 34 cents a bushel, corn was down 9 cents a bushel. Look at that nice correlation, ethanol has no impact right there, soybeans are food which is DIRECTLY influenced by the crude market.
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So what that corn was down 9 cents YESTERDAY? Take a look at the chart of corn futures over the last year from the Chicago Board of Trade
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 14, 2008 8:23 am) I find it shameful and embarrassing that our government continues to promote and support its use on such a grand scale. |
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 14, 2008 8:23 am) What crops were not planted to make way for more corn? I know fields in the Imperial Valley of CA are growing corn where they used to grow lettuce and other vegetables. Good for the farmers bad for the consumers. From your lack of response you must think that the price of oil going up since the ethanol mandate is just coincidence. I think we are caught in a battle between Big Ag and Big Oil. We are just the poor slobs that are paying the price. Also soybeans are being used for biodiesel. Though last I read they were too expensive to use. There is no mandate on biodiesel so the market sets the price, not Uncle Sam. When we come up with a feedstock for ethanol that is not mandated and is cost effective let me know. When Congress lifts the tariff on Brazilian ethanol I will know they are getting serious about alternatives. |
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Pf Flyer I am so glad you know how to make a graph. If you do not understand market drivers behind this dont just look at a picture and blame it on Ethanol. There are so many other factors that caused corn to increase by $2 a bushel. First off Brazil has not had the weather that they would like down there, Europe and Australia have had terrible droughts which has increased the feed use for corn due to the fact that wheat touched $20 and steered feeders away from wheat and into more corn. If you want to talk about inflation influencing food prices you are terribly un informed if you think oil has nothing to do with this. Oil has directly impacted fertilizer prices, chemical prices, seed prices, and most other farm inputs. Ethanol has helped the demand side of the picture but the crude market had had MUCH more impact on the consumer side. Think about a loaf of bread, the farmer's share is less than the cost of the wrapper. Ya know what factors the cost of that wrapper, YEP OIL!!!!!!! Gagrice my lil no-minded friend, the ethanol mandate has been around before 2007. Also the blenders credit for ethanol has been decreased by 6 cents a gallon. Ethanol also brings down the price of gas to the consumer by 10-15%, if you have any idea where to even check the price of ethanol, you will see it is trading in the mid 2.40's range while RBOB gas is 3.12-3.15. Gagrice also you complain about the POOR consumers. You know what, the increase in crude prices since 2001 is equivalent to a 45% increase in the income tax. Hmmm, I wonder what is really putting the pinch on. You people simply amaze me that you are so un-informed, gotta love that California crowd
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