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The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol

921 messages,  Last post on Oct 07, 2009 at 10:53 AM

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#492 of 921 Re: How do you spell boondoggle again? [pf_flyer] by gagrice May 10, 2008 (5:02 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (May 10, 2008 3:21 pm) Dub hit the old nail on the head. Now if Congress gets their head out of the ADM trough and cuts the subsidy to the producers and removes the tariff from Brazil we may get a legitimate ethanol supply that can live on its own. Also remove the mandate to ethanol laced gas that only cuts mileage and DOES NOTHING for the environment. For those in the Midwest that want to use E85 I say go for it.
#493 of 921 Re: Ethanol [tpe] by sirlena May 11, 2008 (5:27 am)
Replying to: tpe (Apr 30, 2008 4:29 pm) Yes, some vehicles can run on 100% ethanol. Yes, there is a need for modification, but for fuel delivery only. Kits like the one I got from Flex Fuel My Ride apply the additional amount of fuel to burn ethanol. The ECM can add only so much to the fuel trim, and after about 50% ethanol, you get lean codes. And as far as compatibility, this video showed what happened to a Tahoe that ran E85 for over 100,000 miles. They tore apart the engine and fuel system to inspect it. Tahoe Video Engine and fuel system clean. The comparable gas Tahoe needed a fuel pump, before 100,000 miles.   Yes, I think this is awesome, making fuel in your back-yard through a non-combustible process. Many of the articles fail to mention that the sugar source is from Mexico and non-edible. It's extremely cheap and that company is looking to provide a distribution network for the sugar. Also, there is a Discarded Alcohol Recovery mode, that reduces the price to 10 cents a gallon. EFuel100   Oh, and someone keeps mentioning the subsidies. That 51 cents/gallon credit goes mostly to OIL companies, because they didn't want to stop adding MTBE (cancer causing and ground water polluting) to the fuel as a oxygenate. The credit was to help build the infrastructure for the blending. We get some of that money back thru taxing non-US ethanol. Replies to this message: gagrice (May 11, 2008 5:54 am)
#494 of 921 Re: Ethanol [sirlena] by gagrice May 11, 2008 (5:54 am)
Replying to: sirlena (May 11, 2008 5:27 am) Oh, and someone keeps mentioning the subsidies. That 51 cents/gallon credit goes mostly to OIL companies, because they didn't want to stop adding MTBE (cancer causing and ground water polluting) to the fuel as a oxygenate. The credit was to help build the infrastructure for the blending. We get some of that money back thru taxing non-US ethanol   Yes the refinery gets the 51 cents per gallon subsidy for adding ethanol. Not to eliminate the MTBE. MTBE was also a government mandate that IS totally unnecessary. Even the EPA website has a good article on the fact that oxygenated fuel is no longer needed. So the fact that ethanol is an oxygenate in small percentages is a waste. The Mandate to lace our unleaded gas with ethanol is corporate welfare to companies like Exxon, ADM and VERASUN. It saves America NOTHING. My mileage drops more than 10% with whatever ethanol they add to our gas in CA. So absolutely no help on cutting imported oil.   You may be convinced that corn ethanol is a good alternative fuel. I don't think you have swayed many others in that direction. Now that several ethanol stills are going broke due to high corn prices what say ye? That is exactly what happened to the Brazilian ethanol industry in the 1980s. Sugar was more valuable as food.   No one gets that 53 cent tariff on Brazilian ethanol. It is just added to the price of our ethanol laced gas. Even with the 53 cent tariff Brazil can produce ethanol cheaper than our farmers can with highly subsidized corn. That to me shows the folly in calling it an alternative. It is merely a scam perpetrated on the American public.   By the logic exhibited with corn ethanol legislation we should be adding a 25% tariff on cars coming from Japan, Korea and Germany, while giving a 25% subsidy to the Big 3 manufacturers in the USA.
#496 of 921 Re: Read [nascar57] by jkinzel May 13, 2008 (7:09 pm)
The member comments say it all.   I think Miss Sharon Begley should find other topics to write about.
#497 of 921 Re: Read [nascar57] by gagrice May 13, 2008 (7:30 pm)
And tell me just why should I believe the ramblings of a space scientist like Robert Zubrin, with an agenda?   I think your assessment of those of us that totally disagree with you is repulsive. I am not sure why you feel that name calling will convince us that know the truth about ethanol to change our views. Not one to believe in coincidence. I find it most coincidental that the price of oil and food have risen sharply with the expansion of Ethanol production from Corn.   Last check you have one poster here that sells E85 conversion kits that believes the lies about ethanol....You are a minority here and in the country as a whole. Hope ethanol is making you wealthy at the rest of our expense.   PS Zubrin advocates dropping the tariff on Brazilian ethanol. That to me would signal a serious attempt to cut oil imports. He also believes that hydrogen is a hoax. So we are in partial agreement.   which means that we could drop our current tariffs against Latin American sugar-ethanol.
#498 of 921 Re: Read [nascar57] by texases May 13, 2008 (7:33 pm)
What, another ethanol apologists' ramblings? Don't think so. The ethanol program, as currently implemented in the US, has increased all grain and food prices through crop shifts, and is doing nothing for energy self sufficiency.   P.S. Sorry, this idiot isn't shutting up...
#499 of 921 Sorghum ethanol shows real promise. by gagrice May 14, 2008 (6:00 am)
Unlike corn ethanol that uses about as much fossil fuel as it replaces, Sorghum may be a good alternative.   A sugary sap inside the plant's stalk, which grow as tall as 12 feet, can be turned into a potent biofuel, and experts and companies are studying its potential with hopes that farmers will want to plant more of it.   Ethanol made from the stalk's juice has four times the energy yield of the corn-based ethanol, which is already in the marketplace unlike sweet sorghum. Sweet sorghum produces about eight units of energy for every unit of energy used in its production. That's about the same as sugarcane but four times as much as corn.   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_re_us/farm_scene_sweet_sorghum_ethanol- Replies to this message: bpizzuti (May 14, 2008 6:32 am) gagrice (May 14, 2008 6:48 am)
#500 of 921 Re: Sorghum ethanol shows real promise. [gagrice] by bpizzuti May 14, 2008 (6:32 am)
Replying to: gagrice (May 14, 2008 6:00 am) Now that's not a bad idea, but ideally we want something that won't use up existing food cropland. Replies to this message: gagrice (May 14, 2008 6:48 am)
#501 of 921 Re: Sorghum ethanol shows real promise. [bpizzuti] by gagrice May 14, 2008 (6:48 am)
Replying to: bpizzuti (May 14, 2008 6:32 am) That is true and part of the balancing act. Corn has proven incapable of satisfying both the ethanol still and the food stocks. That explains the price of corn going through the roof.

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