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Hybrid Vehicles Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol
921 messages, Last post on Oct 07, 2009 at 10:53 AM
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 01, 2008 6:17 am) Yes, they should build more refineries when the government is trying to drive them out of business with ethanol mandates...don't think so! |
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Replying to: texases (May 01, 2008 6:00 am) |
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| Simply amazing, yes, we are for sure gonna drive the oil companies out of business. If we used all the corn in the US, it could displace 12% of our gas consumption. This is simply a start, the final solution will probably be hydrogen which just aint ready right now. Simply stupidity in most of these arguments, yeah pull the mandates and progress still wont be made, there werent any mandates 10 years ago and the oil companies still havent built a refinery since 1976. Debate that one, hmmmm wonder what your answer is to that. | |
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 01, 2008 6:43 am) Of course, that may just mean that a for-profit corporation may not be the best way to ensure our energy supply...
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 01, 2008 6:47 am) There are other factors at work here as well. While no new refineries have been built here in decades, existing refineries have been greatly expanded. The question that should be asked is what is our refining capacity now vs then? One other note. We have greatly increased the amount of refined product that we import because it's cheaper to refine it in Mexico and other countries than it is here. It's the same for everything else - why should gas be different? |
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 01, 2008 6:43 am) We did not need them if there was no shortage. The only shortage in the last 10 years was during Katrina when two refineries were knocked off line. There is not an oil shortage. The price of oil did not rocket up until the stupid ethanol mandate came about. Ever think it might be the oil companies flexing their muscle against our ignorant Congress or the big AG companies that are trying to rip US off. CORN Ethanol has not Done ANYTHING to cut oil imports. It has only forced up the price we pay at the pump. Now you can debate that. The facts are in front of you every time you fill your vehicle. I also have a 1999 Ranger FFV. Does me no good without an E85 source. There was also the issue of states not allowing any new refineries to be built. You should study recent history. We went through this same Corn Ethanol boondoggle in the late 1970s. You might want to ask the people that live in the 90+ towns where those corn stills are no longer operating what they think about this stupid idea of food for fuel. The whole ethanol program is built on GREED. Has nothing to do with alternative energy. IF they do come up with an ethanol from waste that works it will require all new production facilities. That will make the current corn stills WORTHLESS. Our tax dollars WASTED for the greed of a few people. |
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 01, 2008 6:17 am) Maybe it's because nobody believes it. I'll concede that transporting food to the market makes up part of the price we pay. So if diesel prices go up then that will affect transportation costs. However when you break down the price of a loaf of bread into all it's components I do not believe that fuel costs are as big as wheat costs. So if diesel doubles in price that will not have the impact of wheat doubling in price. Between 2001 and 2005 fuel prices doubled. There was no corresponding increase in food prices. How do you explain that if food prices are so sensitive to the price of fuel? Food prices are high for several reasons. One being that there is a relative shortage of these commodities compared to other periods. This would be true regardless of the price of oil. Turning corn into ethanol is simply aggravating this problem.
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Replying to: nascar57 (May 01, 2008 6:43 am) I believe that numerous refineries have actually been shut down since 1976. So what? The number of refineries is irrelevant and I'm not sure why people focus so much on it. What's important is refining capacity, which has increased significantly since 1976. It is far easier for the oil companies and others in the refinery business to expand an existing one rather than build a new one. This is what they've been doing. As far as the consumer is concerned it just doesn't matter. |
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Replying to: tpe (May 01, 2008 7:09 am) Very good point and very true. I was paying about $1.50 a dozen for eggs less than a year ago. Now they are over $3 per dozen. Corn is the main feed for chickens. Why I think oil prices are a direct result of ethanol being mandated. If someone is trying to force you out of business the natural thing to do if you can is squeeze them. Could it be that OPEC does not like to be manipulated by ADM and ethanol. They cut back on production the price of oil goes up and they make more per barrel and do not use up their supply as fast. The last time we messed with the big oil suppliers in the 1970s we paid the price. We are doing it today. There are other factors such as increased demand from China. There is still no evidence that the demand is outstripping the supply.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 01, 2008 7:28 am) I don't believe demand can ever outstrip supply because the price will simply go up. If oil was to magically drop below $30/barrel I think the demand would definitely exceed supply and we'd have shortages. Then you'd have oil companies capping wells where the extraction costs were high, which would cause greater shortages. |
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