Last post on Dec 03, 2013 at 9:42 AM
You are in the Honda CR-V
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Honda CR-V, Heating / Cooling, SUV
#2145 of 2218 dealership good will strategies plus helpful tips at end
Mar 08, 2013 (10:15 am)
I have watched over the years dealership good will strategies. They seem to be practiced by most brands but is certainly very evident with Honda.
Take known issues like the poorly designed air conditioning vein type compressors in the CRV's or the known faulty engine blocks in the Civics..You go in with a legitimate claim..let's specifically label a claim that I consider quite legitimate and fair, even though technically it might be out of wty. And this very example is known on this forum in at least two different cases I believe..about a year or so ago..one had 40k miles, another had 54k or so but, the owners made their claim about 6 months outside of wty. That's where the technically being out of wty comes in..but wait! We have a KNOWN issue with these claims, and some mileages have been way less than the original warranty period, but only having breached it in terms of time, and sometimes not very much time past wty..This compressor issue is a really good example, because what would cause it to fail is due more to poor design and actual usage...miles. So..so what if the thing has just past the time period of the wty? Don't split hairs and be like that with us, the customer. We purchased our cars from you in good faith. Good faith does play a part in the automotive world where often...no..make that the normal practice is to release a new product into the hands of the consumer while still testing that product for function and longevity. We are the guinea pigs and this testing is done on our dime! Why do they do this, you might ask? Well, first..because they can and have gotten away with this for years..but mainly they do this because the longer they keep a newly designed product in in-house testing before recouping R&D dollars by selling it to us, the less profit they stand to gain for the life of that generation car.
So when along comes a design weakness that causes the product to fail prematurely, we have not only been testing it for them..the manufacturer on our dime, they have audacity to attempt to nickel and dime us, saying crap like.."Well since you didn't service your Honda with our Honda Service Centre (read...since we haven't had the opportunity to charge you three times more per service than a local competent indy shop would have) we are going to deny your claim". This hits especially close to home for me because I do all my own service and maintenance and am damn good at it. Furthermore, I am not on a time clock where time is money, so I take my time when I do these jobs on my cars. If I have receipts and well kept documentation of what was done and when, why do they actually try to use the excuse cuz I didn't let them overchg me for these services. It is an insult to my intelligence. And when you have a sealed system like your A/C system, that doesn't require any service during the wty period (and if you are lucky often for up to 10+ years) it is especially reprehensible for Honda to use this same excuse. Which brings me to another chapter of this strategy they use..the so-called good will part..
The fact is, they overcharge for this A/C repair in the first place. Because of the particular design failure in the compressor, it starts to contaminate the rest of the entire system long before an actual failure takes place, which is your first telltale that you have a problem. Reports of slightly reduced cooling at...say...11am in the morning, usually end in a total failure by 4pm! And in order to have a somewhat successful repair and expect any longevity whatsoever out of a new compressor, is why the advice is usually to replace the entire system, because if you don't, the debris in the system takes out the new compressor..and so it goes all over again. And it is a fairlybig job, so takes quite a few hours to do. And there are a lot of parts involved. But to compound an already unfair situation in which we find ourselves there in the first place they overchg on the parts and labour. We know this FOR A FACT, because the prices across the country have varied just too damn much! All for exactly the same job! There have been dealer quotes from as little as 900 bucks (a bait, cuz not only is that amt too small to repair properly, it represents only a partial part replacement..the compressor only, but with a very high part price also) to the newest high I read recently being 6 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!!! We know that by comparing the stats on the thread (I have followed it from the VERY beginning) the most common overpriced, but proper repair* (replace entire system) is usually between 3000 to 3500. Ridiculous..And this is where the good-will crap comes in. IF and I do mean IF you have bought numerous Hondas over the years and always had them service at your dealer, they might say to Honda Corporate.."well they have been a good customer, so we should help them, cuz afterall, we KNOW we designed an inferior quality compressor in the first place". So them Honda crunched the numbers and often will say..ok we will pay HALF. But let's remember something. Their idea of half, is still half of a very overpriced parts and labour product in the first place. This is done deliberately, so that they can actually do it FOR THEIR ACTUAL COSTS (and sometimes even still make a little on it) by charging your 1500 to 2000. for the repair. This price range has been the most common throughout the thread. So the customer thinks, well, at least they did try to treat me right...Ya right...they managed to pull the wool over your eyes and charged you THEIR COSTS! So they are actually out NOTHING! And they think (and often do) they have secured you as a Honda faithfully loyal customer for years to come.
But then you have the other side of that...what about these poor customers whose negotiating skills maybe aren't as good, or they have a crappy dealer, or maybe they didn't service their Honda at their dealer..etc, and the quotes come in as a real high, like 4200 to 4500. This range has been the most common for the blatantly high quotes of a full system re and re. Well duh......that is STILL 1200 HUNDRED to FIFTEEN HUNDRED BUCKS MORE than the already ridiculously high priced norm of 3000 to 3500.!!!!! And if they get some of the victims to actually pay this road-robbery price, that just pads their profit margins to cover some of the other pay-half to sometimes pay nothing repair...those ones are rare limme tell ya..And usually in those circumstance when Honda did step up and pay for it ALL, it was because usually those were the customers that had owned Honda for more than two decades and always took their cars to the dealer for all maintenance and service reapirs, so Honda has already made a huge FORTUNE over those years...the least they can do is do a free-bee....and...and this is REAL KICKER #1...on a repair of an ALREADY KNOWN poorly designed (for longevity, at least
#2146 of 2218 dealership good will strategies plus helpful tips at end Pt2
Mar 08, 2013 (10:17 am)
at least they blow really cold when they work) A/C system.
Now.....ya wanna know the REAL KICKER #2? It's that when they DO replace the entire system either for their costs, or as much as a few THOUSAND more than their costs....
THEY REPLACE IT WITH THE SAME DAMN TYPE COMPRESSOR THAT WILL BLACK DEATH YOU ALL OVER AGAIN...sooner than it should.
And so the cycle continues..
Ok, so here are some tips that will help you get the most life out of your compressor.
- do NOT bypass the 2 defrost settings which automatically engage the compressor when you choose defrost in the winter months. This auto engagement of the compressor serves two purposes, first (some would say...the ones who haven't had a failure yet) is to assist in demisting, but really..in my mind the most important reason, is that it keeps the system lubed with the oil that is also in the lines and gets distributed with the freon type gas, or 134A etc. during the off season. This helps keep the system oiled and the seals compliant and able to better resist shrinkage/cracking and leaking. So when you read on the internet the procedure of how to bypass these two defroster settings, either don't bother doing it all, OR, if you choose to do it, then be pro-active in the off season and make sure you cycle the compressor manually by pushing the A/C switch and running it for at least 10 or 15 min twice a week. If the temp is really cold, there is a chance that your compressor will still not turn on because there is a thermal-electric temp relay that does not send power to it in the really cold temps.. It will vary from brand to brand, but usually colder than 15 to 20¼F. So when you have a mild spell in the winter, make sure you try to cycle the compressor for a good long drive during that mild spell.
- the second tip I have is little known, but it serves two purposes, both to your advantage. When I am 2 to 3 min away from my destination, I turn off my A/C and sometimes turn the fan speed up a notch or two. What this does is blow off the cold air from the evaporator. This serves as two really good purposes..first, this habit will result in a lot less mildew growth on the evaporator from constantly getting wet (feeding pollen etc) and then drying into a nice wet hot environment for nasties to grow. Blowing off the cold air, reduces this moisture considerably and you will notice your A/C smelling a lot cleaner, longer. The second perk to this habit, has to do with the inner PSI in the high and low pressure lines of the A/C system...by manually turning off A/C prior to your destination, the blowing off of cold air on the evaporator, let's these high and low pressure lines equalize. This is a good thing. Now...there is a valve in the system that does this automatically, but sometimes they fail, or their working parameters are such that it takes longer to let the lines PSI equalize. By you doing it manually, you not only extend the life of your system, you extend the life of this equalizing and expansion valve.
#2147 of 2218 Re: dealership good will strategies plus helpful tips at end [gimmestdtranny]
Mar 13, 2013 (11:32 am)
#2145 and #2146 posts are very good and helpful. Thanks for the tips.
I am in Memphis, TN. As they explained, changing air compressor +/- condenser alone, a fairly simple job, will not solve the problem for Honda CRV 2002-2006. Dobbs Honda quoted me $3,700 for replacing the whole AC system. It is quite expensive for an air compressor problem. My Honda CRV 2006 was very dependable until the air compresser broke. Thanks to this forum, I learned and understood the air compressor problem. I called Honda America and the case manager Rio started investigation within 24 hrs.
The assistant service manager Mr. Joe Sims at the dealership was also very nice, patient, and professional. After investigation, Honda agreed to charge me only $500 + tax for this repair, which exceeded my expectation. I know changing air-compressor with original Honda parts alone would cause more than that. I picked up my car 5 days ago, so far so good. Joe told me it came with 1 year parts and labor warranty. I am gald I got it repaired in the Honda dealership.
For my case, technically, Honda doesnot have to help me because I am out of warranty. But arguably from my point of view, an air compressor failure should not cost $3,700. I think my service records, mileage, and two good people, Joe and Rio, helped me. In comparison, my previous cars, like Ford Taurus, Toyota Corolla, and Nissan Sentra, all costed me much more than $500 in repair when reaching 88,000 miles. So for my case, my Honda CRV so far is the most dependable. In addition, Honda America and Dobbs Dealership did make my repair experience less painful to handle -- They do not have to help me, that is why I am so grateful.
Mar 13, 2013 (5:55 pm)
Have had a few issues on my '06 mode land twice, Honda has paid me half...once on the tires and again on the a/c repair. This has been my 1st Honda product and sadly it will be my last. Reading all these posts just shows me the lack of customer commitment Honda shows people like myself. My issued were real and happened way before my warranty ran out so it seems Honda Corp. has no faith in their own products and treats their customers like crap! Plan to go back to either Toyota or Nissan next time or possibly Hyundai/Kia. Our Hyundai Accent has been an outstanding car and the one major problem was fixed in the 4th year of ownership with no questions asked within 2 hours...very impressive. Honda, maybe y'all should take a look at how Hyundai treats a customer and learn something. Your days of being a top cat company have passed and that y'all better step up to the plate here or you will be a niche company before too long folks!
#2149 of 2218 Re: Alin Class Action Settlement for Compressors [123tenacity]
Mar 17, 2013 (12:12 pm)
Keep up the good work!
#2150 of 2218 2007 CRV AC Black Death
Apr 01, 2013 (8:45 am)
My 2007 CR-V AC suffered "Black Death" with less than 35,000 miles on it. The dealership refused to do anything stating that I should have bought an extended warranty. My husband and I both own a Honda, but if they don't take care of this, it will be the last one I ever own.
The reason I bought a Honda was because I thought they made a quality product or at least stood behind their product. They have offered to pay $600 toward the bill, but in my case, the entire system had to be replaced due to their faulty part.
#2151 of 2218 Re: 2007 CRV AC Black Death [chantal714]
Apr 07, 2013 (6:32 am)
Mine has been replaced three times.....THREE!!! The last episode left me stranded on the freeway for hours with my autistic grandson. I am so fed up, and with summer fast approaching, wonder if my air will work this summer, or leave me stranded again. Financially, I cannot afford to fix it again. I guess if it does, I will have to trade cars and it won't be another Honda.
#2152 of 2218 Poor AC performance
Apr 10, 2013 (8:41 am)
I have a 2011 CRV that in two years has been in five times for poor cooling performance on the AC. Last time it was in they did the recall on the clutch. Each time they tell me it is working properly and each time I tell them when it gets over 75deg and sunny the car will not cool down. It seems to start out good and cold when I turn it on, put after about ten minutes is just looses the good cold flow and is cool but not cold like it needs to run so the car never cools down no matter how long or how hard I run it.
I am thinking either a problem still exists in the cycle of the compressor or it is just under designed.
Is this a common problem ?
#2153 of 2218 Re: Poor AC performance [dvickers]
Apr 10, 2013 (9:36 am)
Most shops do not vacuum the moisture out of the system for long enough because time is money. Often they only get 5 min of vacuum when they should have upwards of 2 hours. Naturally care has to be taken when undoing equipment to preserve that dried internal system environment. Any amount of moisture whatsoever in the system will contaminate the new refrigerant and make it cool less efficiently.
Also, very important to install a NEW dryer canister whenever A/C parts are replaced. This helps keep internal moisture at a minimum. They do not cost a lot considering how important it is.
Next, make sure there is not too much refrigerant being put back in. If the shops A/C tool centre, has extra long hoses, then that extra length might be contributing to over charging. That is a bad as under charging.
I am not an expert, but from what I do understand, it sounds like you have an expansion valve that is freezing, hence the nice cold air at the beginning. Or even the evaporator may be freezing up. Is there an excessive amount of dripping water after the car has been turned off for an hour or so in 80¼ weather? And then if you start car A/C will blow cold again for a bit? An icing evaporator will do this and also if you seem to not have as much air flow coming into the car...because the ice is literally plugging the evaporator veins.
Also make sure the fans that pull air through the condenser are cycling with the compressor. If they are not working then in stop and go trips, when u come to stop, air will not be cold as when you start to drive again getting air through the condenser.
But it could be other reasons too..
edit- also..."5 times" - insist on having a DIFFERENT tech address this issue. The original guy could be doing the same wrong things over and over, or lack knowledge.