Last post on Jun 07, 2013 at 12:19 PM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Heating / Cooling, SUV
#1723 of 2168 Another last follow-up
Aug 14, 2010 (10:45 am)
'02 CR-V Ex--88,000 miles, well-maintained, AC went out early July, picked up my car yesterday--I originally took my car to a dealer in Knoxville, TN, where I live. I don't believe they did anything more than eyeball it, if that. Took them a week to get back to me and said it was the whole system ( $3,000) and no good-will warranty.
I drove to a dealership in Marietta, GA, (where I bought an Element EX), and left my car with them. The service rep, before the day was over, called and said it might just be a damaged condenser (and showed me the damage). Furthermore, he said that with luck maybe all I needed was a new condenser and freon, but he wouldn't know for sure until they fixed that.
The next day he called with the news that it was more than the condenser, but not the whole AC system--the compressor was blown, and the car would need a new compressor, clutch, coil. (This dealer also was not going to extend a good-will warranty). At this point I had the option to pay for the compressor and freon and take my car somewhere else to complete the work. I left it, of course, because I was tired of the whole ordeal and by this time just wanted it done.
Here are the charges:
What have I learned?
1.) I was told that dealers are allotted so many dollars per month for good-will warranties; therefore, although the dealers act as if you are being turned down by AH, it indeed begins there at the dealership. That's why, if you are NOT loyal to their service department (where most of their money is made), they shrug you off. And it has nothing to do with purchasing a car, only service.
2.) The purpose of the SB describing the problem and fix with the A, B, or C kit makes it easier for many dealer's just to say (without really looking at your particular situation), "you need the C kit"--which is the whole system-- again without really accessing your problem--and that is the $3,000+ job. Don't accept an overall assessment; make the dealer break it down by components.
3.) Knowing what I know now, I would take my car to an independent auto repair shop that fixes A/Cs, never dealing with Honda and the resulting grief and despair I incurred. I added my name to the class action suit, but I don't expect anything to become of that--certainly not any compensatory dollars.
4.) Lastly, I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I bought a new Element EX and will sell the CR-V. I believe that Toyota will have to improve their warranties considering their bad press (like Audi first, then BMW and Porche.) and Honda will have to follow suit...eventually.
OK, overall, I think Honda's business practices suck. I think car dealerships in general suck. I hope everyone else dealing with this problem has better outcomes than mine.
#1724 of 2168 Honda Expansion Valve Question
Aug 14, 2010 (2:57 pm)
I have a Honda CR-V 1999. I just replaced the Compressor with a rebuilt compressor and dryer. It worked fine the first two days and then it started fluctuating in temperature between 100° and 84° as I drive it down the road. It will fluctuate to 84° when its standing still and when Im going 65mph down the road. It will also go to 100° under the same conditions. I did not replace the expansion valve. We do see the clutch engaging and it looks like it is working properly when we have it sitting still and it will not disengage when we start it up. It's only after we start going down the road. Do you think replacing the expansion valve might solve the problem?
#1725 of 2168 Re: 2005 Honda CR-V Compressor [old_red]
Aug 14, 2010 (2:59 pm)
I went back to the dealer that I purchased the vehicle from to have them give me their assessment of the damages/costs. They did quote $2400--which was several hundred dollars cheaper. Plus, I asked the service advisor for a goodwill repair based on what I have read here and on other sites. He did acknowledge that there were problems with compressor since 2002. I was told that if they do agree to help me out, they will sell me the parts at cost, plus cover 25% of the bill. My family and I have purchased 4 Hondas and serviced them at this location over the last 15 years. Thanks to everyone for sharing information and experiences. We'll see what happens. I should get an answer on Monday.
#1726 of 2168 Re: Honda Expansion Valve Question [franktrain]
Aug 14, 2010 (3:12 pm)
Is it icing up? If so, try to confirm you have the correct qty of freon. Too much will cause as many malfunctions in operation as too little. It doesn't have to be exact, but see that it is within the range of grams as stated in your OM.
You did a very thorough evacuation right? If your compressor grenaded, then usually comp, condenser and drier are affected. Did you confirm no shrapnel went up the lines to the evaporator?
#1727 of 2168 Re: Another last follow-up [belacqua]
Aug 14, 2010 (7:44 pm)
Three times my 2000 CRV was in the shop in the last two years to have the condenser replaced. The vehicle was 8 years old (128K miles) the first time it broke and I realized the first time that things break after awhile, but not three times in the two subsequent years.
When the AC began clunking on Monday I knew what to expect. This time instead of taking the vehicle to my local mechanic, I went to the dealership. They diagnosed (for only $60 instead of the normal $125) that the car had a bad case of the Black Death, and quoted just over $4K to repair the entire system. They asked American Honda for assistance but because the car is so old, Honda America understandably would not give me any assistance. However the local shop got the price down to $3147. (The parts alone came to $2065). The local shop, according to their invoice had replaced the parts (compressor, clutch, condenser, and freon each time and belts once); the dealership did the same plus replaced numerous pipes and hoses. The dealership mechanic told me that there shards probably from the first time the condenser went out; he said they get caught in the pipes and hoses then recycle through to damage the replacement parts. So each time after the first 'fix' that the AC had problems, and it appears that the shards had broken loose from the old pipes and hoses and recontaminated the system. Though the small shop told me about the black death, they did not replace all the hoses and pipes, or at least did not put it on the invoice, and charged me about half what the dealership charged. They also used after market parts, which I assume are probably fine normally if the shards were not in the closed system.
So, now the car's been fixed at the dealership. I have piece of mind that the problem is fixed and I will drive the Texas summers comfortably for the next 171K miles. What I have learned from this is that there are some things one MUST go to the dealership for.
#1728 of 2168 2004 CRV Black Death
Aug 16, 2010 (1:30 pm)
My 2004 CRV can be added to the Black Death list. I have 80000 miles on it and the AC went out a few weeks ago. I heard a loud noise while driving on the highway and then it began blowing hot air. At first I was hopeful that it just needed freon, but no such luck. The whole system needed to be replaced to the tune of $3200. The dealer contacted Honda and they agreed to pay 60% of the cost. I was still out over $1300 with tax. I am upset that a recall has not been done, since apparently this is fairly common. I was told that I have 3yrs/36000mile warrenty on the new ac system, so I am crossing my fingers that I do not have the same issue down the road.
#1729 of 2168 Honda AC Black Death
Aug 16, 2010 (3:16 pm)
Apparently Ford FX and Ford FS also have the same type of compressor issues resulting in Black Death.
#1731 of 2168 isellhondas, how many miles are normal ?
Aug 16, 2010 (4:33 pm)
After reading a lot of your postings that state that the older, higher mileage CRVs failures are normal, I was just wondering what you consider premature. Should 36 K miles be the ultimate point where Honda says no more repairs are covered ?
This is not a rip towards you, I really would like to hear your opinion on what a buyer should expect from Honda. I agree that 8-10 year old cars with 100k are no longer elgible for free replacement. ( sure that won't be popular to some)
In my case, the failure happened at just under 4 years and just over 48 K. Was mine premature ? Do you think Honda should cover a portion ? If so how much ?
We buy Hondas for their "dependable" reputation, are we suckers to expect more than 36K of reliability. My wife has 4 yr/50K standard warranty on her 5 series, if she keeps it, I will be buying a warranty. With a Honda, I was foolish enough to pass on the extended warranty based on Honda's image. Funny how it works, thought I would be in the BMW sevice department more than Hondas.
#1732 of 2168 Re: Honda AC Black Death [alana50]
Aug 16, 2010 (4:37 pm)
I wonder if posters who have done this repair could post the brand and model number of the replacement compressors? Hopefully that info is on their bill.
Are we allowed to post links here? I was reading about Black Death from a site called Polar Bear. Seems some models were replaced and the old ones (in Nissan and Isuzu) used two identical types, but the newer ones have an aluminum part instead of steel. The old steel ones were too hardy and lasted too long. I am guessing this decision to use aluminum was not for saving weight, it is more about ensuring the part fails and lands u back at the dealer for repairs. It should be criminal though to use a part they KNOW will take out the rest of the system when that one part fails.
If i find replacement units that have a better history of longevity, I will post them. Hopefully I get the straight poop tho when I ask.