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Chrysler Pacifica

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#51 of 2571 hybrid expectations by fastbuck Jan 17, 2002 (5:54 pm)
from what i've read dc needs to move 130k pacificas a year at approximately $30k per to make a profit. good luck dc. principal competitors acura and lexus sell about half as many rx300's and even fewer mdx's per year at roughly comparable prices. to date,the only "hybrids" to sell in volume are small vehicles like escape, pt and crv at the $20k price point. the fact that recent chrysler products have achieved rough parity with the top japanese vehicles on material quality and reliability has not yet been fully absorbed by the market. so why should we expect what will in essence be a chrysler mdx to outsell acura or the others? on the automobile front, chrysler's strengths (e.g. styling, innovative features) have not translated into substantial sales where they have gone up against comparable japanese products in the same market segment. to take an example, 300m sales are running at about half of acura tl's and declining, while the acura is up for 2001. dc's successes have come only when they have created new market niches (e.g. minivans, midsize affordable convertibles, midsize pickups, 3 seat row suv's, etc.) or risked wildly creative styling (e.g. ram, pt, viper). when others have followed dc into the niche (e.g. odyssey minivans, everyone with 3 row suv's) or when styling has been toned down (those minivans again), sales have fallen off. with pacifica, dc is following, not leading: acura, lexus, audi, and volvo are already there, and the honda pilot and volvo xc 90 will both be on the market before pacifica arrives. and pacifica's styling, while handsome, is hardly the bold statement made by the pt cruiser or original ram. bottom line: absent very aggressive pricing, pacifica will be a modest success, not a major hit.
#52 of 2571 Fastbuck- I think the Pacifica will be lower than the ones you mentioned. by cb70 Jan 19, 2002 (7:04 am)
Of course who knows on the pilot but all the other vehicles you mentioned start out above $30K. If Pacifica has a base of $25K it will be substantially less than the competitors you mentioned. I think a closer rival to the Pacifica is the Outback. It appears that they will have similar pricing. I don't think Pacifica is much competition for any vehicles you spoke of except the Pilot. I think the Pacifica will be much nicer equipped than the Pilot for the price but it is hard to say until we see the pricing on both.
#53 of 2571 Spec? by plawin1 Jan 20, 2002 (7:53 pm)
I read about this in Automotive News. According to Chrysler, the Mercedes vehicle was developed independently. They think the "segment" is big enough for both -- but haven't promised they'll build the Mercedes.   This looks like something I'd be interested in. I like the "chairs" that come in minivans and SUVs, but I don't like climbing up to them or the high center of gravity. I hope that's what they mean about a new "segment" -- too low to be an SUV, too tall to be a station wagon.   I'd like a car with a high roof that accommodates a decent seat. The hatchback style is okay, but I agree that the windows look awful narrow.   Does anyone have specs (length, width, height) on the Pacifica?
#54 of 2571 Plawin1- Post 21 has a link to Pacifica page by cb70 Jan 21, 2002 (10:41 am)
Should give you the answers you need.
#55 of 2571 Thanks by plawin1 Jan 21, 2002 (9:03 pm)
Thanks for the link -- I see now that I missed a couple posts as I was reading through this thread.   From my perspective, the Pacifica is almost as big as a grand caravan. The length and wheelbase are each 3" less, and it's 2" shorter. The surprising thing is that it's just as wide (of course, that makes sense if it's built on a Caravan platform).   That's too big for me. I'm still looking for the ordinary mid-size sedan with a raised roof.
#56 of 2571 More Unfounded Pessimism by fastbuck Jan 22, 2002 (6:16 pm)
Forbes columnist Jerry Flint expressed a viewpoint similar to mine in his most recent column:   "Most important was the Chrysler Pacifica. With three rows of seats and all-wheel drive, it is to go into production in about a year. Chrysler talked about a price starting in the middle $20,000s, but I would say $31,000 to $35,000 might be more like it for a well-equipped model. Volume? They didn't say, but I hear the target is 130,000 a year. This is a huge number. Subaru, one of the leading wagon makers, sells about 80,000 AWD wagon-like vehicles a year, but they are generally priced between $26,000 and $28,000."   I don't think 31 to 35K is a whole lot higher than what Acura and Lexus are getting for MDX's and RX's (based on my experience last year shopping both), both of which only come well equipped, and both of which sell in far lower numbers. Again, it's difficult to impossible to believe that Pacifica can be a PT sized hit.
#57 of 2571 fastbuck by rb123 Jan 22, 2002 (8:03 pm)
I think you need to take a closer look at chrysler's past new vehicles and the sales numbers. The minivan first came out in 1984 and today 18 years later they are still far and away the best selling on the market they own 40 percent of the minivan market, the Jeep grand cherokee the second best selling suv on the market, the Dodge Ram going from 4% of the market to 20% after the redesign in 1994, The PT crusier another major hit. So from what I have seen I would expect the pacifica to be another hit.
#58 of 2571 Last come Last served by fastbuck Jan 23, 2002 (11:30 am)
As I said earlier, DC has hit big where they created a new niche, or entered an existing one with a radically styled new product. The minivans and Grand Cherokee are examples of the former, PT and Ram pickup the latter. As I also said, when competitors enter DC niches, DC sales drop. Honda was the first competitor to fully comprehend the DC minivan concept, and copy it without modification (although with a couple of improvements, like the fold down third row). The only reason DC hasn't lost more share to Honda on minivans is that Honda is capacity constrained. Likewise, Grand Cherokee, which pioneered the midsize luxury SUV niche, is experiencing plummeting sales due to new competition from all fronts. Pacifica is neither creating a new niche, or entering an existing one with a radical new look. Instead, DC is joining an existing and soon to be much more crowded niche with a product that isn't much different or better looking than the competition. Nor is it clear that there's even that big of a "sport tourer" market out there. If there is, Honda,Toyota, Volvo and Audi have all messed up somewhere, since none of their products has achieved anything like DC's projected sales, despite receiving almost universal acclaim, and being marketed under more appealing brands than Chrysler.
#59 of 2571 Market share and profits.... by bgkanne Jan 23, 2002 (11:39 am)
Regardless of how the Chrysler mini van, Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram are doing, the company is loosing enormous amounts of money and has huge rebates on most products. They even have a rebate on the PT Cruiser now; supply has finally caught up with demand.   In the case of the mini van, most people find the Honda Odyssey to be the best; that's why it's in short supply with no rebates and virtually no discounting. You can sure Honda is making far more on each Odyssey than Chrysler makes on it's vans because of the lack of discounting.   The Grand Cherokee is an also ran in todays market because it's cramped inside and has solid axles, which does not translate into the car like handling and ride that many of it''s competitors now have. The Grand Cherokee also has rebates and sells with huge discounts.   The new Dodge Ram is an improvement but sells a distant third to Ford and Chevy. If you look at the latest Motor Trend, it's current gas engines are truly feeble compared to those from Ford and Chevy. This will change, of course, once they figure out how to put the V10 in it. A V10 Ford Lightening competitor is coming out from Dodge, but it will be a low volume niche vehicle.

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