Last post on Aug 16, 2011 at 11:03 PM
You are in the Nissan Xterra
What is this discussion about?
Nissan Xterra, Toyota FJ Cruiser, Car Buying, SUV
#12 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [chiefjojo]
Jun 26, 2006 (12:45 pm)
>>> Dude, be patient. If you really want a base model FJ,
>>> they will come eventually. The market is tight right
>>> now for FJs, so dealers can maximize sales and profits
>>> with loaded FJs. It's just supply and demand. I expect
>>> base models to come in later this year.
"Dude", I have been patient. I've also been a Toyata customer for decades. And I've been waiting for 20 years* for Toyota to bring out anything even remotely similar to the FJ40. The FJ Cruiser could easily have been a much better vehicle, but in my enthusiasm for the FJ history I was willing to cut Toyota some slack. But by gouging the very people (offroaders) they're trying to use in legitimizing the FJ Cruiser, I believe Toyota went too far.
In terms of actual numbers, the sales of FJ Cruisers are a drop in the bucket for Toyota + its dealerships. This is a "halo" vehicle that should have brought some cachet to a brand that now mainly appeals to older (40+) people. Would bringing in a couple thousand basic 4 x 4 FJ Cruisers from Day 1 really have killed Toyota? Isn't Toyota tring to inject some youth appeal into its brand with the Scion models? Well the FJ Cruiser could have single-handedly accomplished more to revitalize Toyota's image in a few months than Scion has done in 3 years. Imagine the PR Toyota could have generated by having a bunch of FJ Cruisers selling to the under 30 crowd (people who are unlikely to be able to afford vehicles that have $5000 worth of options piled on).
Yes, I realize dealers are trying to make a quick buck, but I wish everyone was just a bit more honest. (All the dealers I've spoken to claim they are just selling what Toyota sent them and have no control over the product mix; Toyota USA's representitives claim they're only building what the dealers have requested. And since Toyota apparently refuses to build special order vehicles, unless you're willing to buy $5000 worth of useless options the FJ Cruiser is out of reach.)
Yes I realize that once the Yuppies and soccer moms have satisfied their demand for an attentiog-getting vehicle and bought the first 6 month's worth of FJ Cruisers at MSRP (or higher), the prices will come down + Toyota will start being more flexible in what options are being forced onto customers. It would be interesting to see what people here would do if they heard the following:
1) A diesel version of the FJ Cruiser will be offered in 2008.
2) Freeborn Red, Rustic Green and Dune Beige will be added as color options in 2008.
I just cancelled my FJ Cruiser order today and will be picking up my deposit later this week. Diehard Toyota customers deserve to be treated better than this.
Best of luck to everyone else who has decided to wait for the insanity to end.
*Ironically, I just noticed the slogan on the FJ Cruiser ad on the side of this page: "FJ Cruiser: The Wait Is Over." Hilarious.
#13 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [cloned_2_death]
Jun 26, 2006 (1:53 pm)
Well the manager of the dealership I had placed the order with just called me back after I left a message this morning telling him I was cancelling the order. He indicated that Toyota has now started building FJ Cruisers with LESS (not NO) options and he is going to check to see if he can "preference" a vehicle with no options. [I don't want the silly "upgrade" and "convenience" packages (want steel rather than aluminum wheels, tinted windows make the back seat area feel like a dungeon, the sonar is a joke, the inclinometer etc cluster is a waste of space, stereo is pretty lame); nor am I interested in the side airbags (the vehicle was recently crash tested WITHOUT side airbags and received a 5 star rating).]
I stopped by the Nissan store to look at the Xterra again. I still don't think the Nissan is in the same league as the FJ Cruiser in terms of build quality, but the Xterra is not a bad SUV for the price. I'll wait to hear what the local Toyata manager has to say, but I'm not optimistic...
#14 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [cloned_2_death]
Jun 26, 2006 (8:23 pm)
I'm not sure if it is part of Toyota marketing. They seem to be aiming for the upper middle class. All the hybrids are way over priced. That is supposed to be their claim to "Greendom". Yet none of their hybrids are selling to the under $85,000 per year demographic. They have the cheapo Scion brand that they push to the masses. Scions are even way over priced when I looked at them. Good luck and keep them honest. It is not easy with any car dealer.
#15 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [cloned_2_death]
Jun 27, 2006 (7:34 am)
I hope that you mean that the dealership that you went to you are boycotting and not including all toyota dealerships in your comment. You cant blame all stores for the attitude of a few that dont care to sell more than one car per customer. they are the problem and the ones that give all a black eye in that respect.
#16 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [gagrice]
Jun 27, 2006 (7:20 pm)
>>> I'm not sure if it is part of Toyota marketing. They
>>> seem to be aiming for the upper middle class. All the
>>> hybrids are way over priced. That is supposed to be
>>> their claim to "Greendom". Yet none of their hybrids
>>> are selling to the under $85,000 per year demographic.
>>> They have the cheapo Scion brand that they push to the
>>> masses. Scions are even way over priced when I looked
>>> at them. Good luck and keep them honest. It is not
>>> easy with any car dealer.
Yeah, you're probably right - Toyota knows they can grab a quick buck from those of us with significant disposable income, but that's a short-sighted strategy. Cadillac is toast because it watched its target audience get older year after year and they lacked a product that would appeal to new blood (who frequently now associate European + Japanese imports with luxury, while the Cadillac name means "old", unreliable" and "shoddy" (Cadillac Cimarron, anyone?). Of course, Toyota is not dumb enough to allow itself to get Oldsmobiled or "Cadillaced" (I invented that term!), but after the desperate move pulled by introducing Scion I would have thought they'd be more willing to use vehicles like the FJ Cruiser to generate buzz among younger customers.
Hybrids are also currently targeted at the upper middle class, but that's who typically are early adopters of "green" technologies anyway. (Just don't tell any of the tree hugging Prius drivers in Marin, California that if looking at things OBJECTIVELY, a Prius compares poorly to non-hybrid vehicles like the Civic and Corolla. Hybrids currently cost way more than they pay back in terms of gas savings and environment savings. Of course, eventually Toyota will cut the costs of producing hybrids to a more reasonable level. Right now I'd rather see everyone driving 60 MPG diesel versions of the Honda Fit...)
It's funny what happened to Toyota's Scion plans - they seem to be more popular with the over 40 crowd (especially seniors and empty nesters living in bigger cities) than they are with 20-somethings. I disagree with you about the pricing of Scions. For the quality and reliability of the Scions I think they're a KILLER deal. $14,000 for an xB is more than fair in my books. I almost bought an xB as a grocery getter/city car when they came out but in the end I decided my 1995 Civic sedan was still a much better vehicle and in no need of replacement. (I still think the Japan-made 1992 - 1995 Civic sedans are the best reasonably priced small cars ever made. Even Honda has been unable to match those cars with its subsequent generations of Civics.)
When I spoke to a local Toyota sales manager off the record, he admitted that they were planning to keep selling loaded FJ Cruisers as long as they could and have no interest in selling base models. But the frenzy has already started to die down and many dealersips are seeing their loaded FJ Cruisers sitting for weeks unsold. They will likely start to discount below MSRP just to move inventory. I didn't think it would happen so quickly given how few FJ Cruisers are being imported, but then again I never thought the Honda S2000 would ever sell below MSRP and I recently bought one for below invoice! Manufacturers must have nightmares trying to figure out what people are willing to spend on cars...
#17 of 41 Re: Toyota is losing goodwill with the FJ Cruiser pricing games. [cloned_2_death]
Jun 28, 2006 (8:51 pm)
$14,000 for an xB is more than fair in my books
I took my wife and we sat in the xB. It is roomy and great visibility. But the price was just under $20k. They had 3 sitting together and one with a manual drive was I think $17k. Not worth it. I can buy a lot of gas and just use my truck for grocery runs. They had a blue FJC on the lot not sold. He tried to get us to look at it. The wife who loved our 1964 FJ40 said the new FJ looked awful.
#18 of 41 FJ vs. Xterra
Jun 29, 2006 (6:28 pm)
I just drove them both back-to-back. The only FJ Toyota had on the lot was a fully loaded Blue 4x4 with a manual transmission ("for the real off-road enthusiasts"). I wanted to test drive a manual Xterra next to it, but sadly had to deal with an automatic. The FJ definitely has a presence on the road, you can feel the other cars looking at you. The manual transmission was awesome, the whole 6th gear thing took me a second to get used to, but I really enjoyed the over-all feel of the manual transmission (read: FUN). I tried getting in the back seat of the FJ and had difficulty, I accidentally hit my head trying to ease my way behind the drivers seat, but once I was back there I had enough leg room. I also didn't like the fact that the back seats didn't fold all the way flat, I think that this is something that should be standard in all SUV's by now, and was sad to see that the FJ couldn't do it.
The Xterra did not have the same presence as the FJ (possibly due to the color) but the automatic transmission was extremely responsive and I could feel the engine wanting to plow through the tiny cars in front of me. Since the engine in the Xterra comes from the 350Z platform, I asked the dealer if the transmission also comes from the Z's platform, he said that it does although in both cases adjustments were made due to the differing uses of the two vehicles, but he said the manual transmission does feel similar to the Z's, which excites me. On the Xterra I like the fact that it's simple, the FJ had so many toys and switches, that I couldn't figure how to disengage some of the features, the Xterra's knobs and idiot proof (yes, I just called myself an idiot), also the visibility in the xterra was great (which is important to me because I HATE relying on my mirrors).
I'm recent college grad, and honestly I think Nissan is unbeatable. On the Xterra they are providing a $1000 manufacturer rebate, and on top of that a $500 rebate, and since it's my first car they will also provide me with 6.9% financing with proof that I have a job! It is going to be hard to find a deal like that on any toyota, even right around the 4th of July.
I definitely recommend trying the two back to back, ask questions, play stupid, and then you'll realize why you too should by the Nissan Xterra!
#19 of 41 Re: FJ vs. Xterra [aazevedo]
Jul 03, 2006 (8:57 am)
I also drove the Xterra and FJ on the same day and went with the Xterra for the same reasons. I was hoping for more from Toyota on this vehicle. As the previous owner of a 1988 4Runner I was excited to see what the FJ had to offer. The old 4Runner was a beast but the FJ just comes up as soft compared to it. People talk about the "presence" of the FJ, the roof of the 88 4Runner came off and it had a rollbar in the back, that turned heads on the road.
The FJ uses better materials on the interior and might be slightly better than the Xterra off-road with 545mm of articulation on the rear wheels the Xterra takes it everywhere else. I done like the FJ's cartoonish looks, the rear seats dont fold all the way back, only has 2 doors, dungeon like visibility, and it felt softer on turns and on the hwy. I picked up an off-road 4WD 6-speed manual black Xterra on the 4th of July weekend and love it. I got mine for $3800 below MSRP including the $1500 in rebates, Toyota was way over MSRP on the FJ making the decision easy. The Rockford Fosgate stereo was definetely worth the extra few bucks.
Someone also pointed to the C&D article on the rock hopper SUV competition and the Xterra beat out the Jeep, FJ, and H3. Check out the link below, it is a good read.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10776/comparison-test-review-2006-hummer- - -h3-vs-2006-jeep-grand-cherokee-laredo-4wd-vs-2006-nissan-xterra-off-road-4wd-vs- - -2007-toyota-fj-cruiser-4wd.html
#20 of 41 good forum
Jul 04, 2006 (8:04 am)
I'm glad I found this discussion. I've been looking mainly at the FJ versus the RAV4, but now I'm starting to consider the Xterra, as well. I'm pleased to see the good reviews (from C&D, etc.) and other things that people have posted. My big hesitation with the Xterra over the FJ is that while Toyota's reputation for reliability is well-established, I'm not as sure about Nissan. Perhaps I'm biased because I remember my sister bought an old used Datsun station wagon in the early 80s and that thing was a rolling rust-bucket. Does Nissan's reliability rival Toyota's these days? What are people's experiences in that regard.
Jul 06, 2006 (12:36 pm)
>>> I'm glad I found this discussion. I've been looking
>>> mainly at the FJ versus the RAV4, but now I'm starting
>>> to consider the Xterra, as well. I'm pleased to see
>>> the good reviews (from C&D, etc.) and other things
>>> that people have posted. My big hesitation with the
>>> Xterra over the FJ is that while Toyota's reputation
>>> for reliability is well-established, I'm not as sure
>>> about Nissan. Perhaps I'm biased because I remember my
>>> sister bought an old used Datsun station wagon in the
>>> early 80s and that thing was a rolling rust-bucket.
>>> Does Nissan's reliability rival Toyota's these days?
>>> What are people's experiences in that regard.
The FJ Cruiser and RAV4 compete in different segments - I'm surprised you were comparing the two. The RAV4 is a modern station wagon for people who don't want to admit they need a station wagon. With the optional V6 the RAV4 changes personality, turning into a poor man's Porsche Cayenne (at 1/3 the price!). The FJ Cruiser is a nice (but needlessly flawed) little vehicle that works equally well on or off road and is probably the easiest-to-live-with hardcore offroad-capable SUV on the market today.
Toyota and Honda have the highest quality vehicles - Nissan is still a level below in terms of reliability + manufacturing quality.