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Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Sedan
#95 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [aspesisteve]
Jan 25, 2008 (12:01 pm)
"Toyota has sold THOUSANDS of great hybrids.
tell me what GM has done?"
I am not sure how the total savings of the prius as compared to hundreds of gm hybrid buses in major cities. Only prius drivers care about enviromnent? buses does not count?
GM has the two-mode hybrid technology at hand for suv/pickup truck, which consumes MUCH MORE gas than small cars, making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient. Toyota does not have anything for big trucks. If you stay in the small car segment, and laugh at what gm has been doing that is not fair, if you look at all segment, you will find gm is far greener than you think. As a matter of fact. read this ...
"For model year 2003, DaimlerChrysler had the best domestic passenger car mileage at 29.7 mpg, followed by GM at 28.9 mpg and Ford at 27.9 mpg. The "domestic" imports (foreign manufacturer but domestic production) had superior mileage: 34.4 mpg for Honda, 28.9 for Nissan and 28.1 mpg for Toyota. For imports, the leader was Suburu at 33.0 mpg, followed by Suzuki (32.4), GM (31.9), and Honda and Hyundai (30.4). Turning to the light truck category, Suburu again proved outstanding, at 26.3 mpg. It was followed by Honda (24.7), Hyundai (24.4), Isuzu (22.3) and DaimlerChrysler (22.2). Some manufacturers earned CAFE incentives by selling alternative fuel vehicles"
As to 10% saving from malibu hybrid is nothing, 10% price premium is nothing too.
#96 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [larsb]
Jan 25, 2008 (10:04 pm)
I have not followed the Vue as hybrids are getting very boring. Just happened onto this site with a lot of GM bashing and thought I would correct some of the misconceptions. The Vue is bigger than the Escape closer to the Highlander and gets as good if not better highway mileage than the Highlander. I would not have one as they are way too small for comfort and safety. As is the Camry & Prius. So there are no legitimate hybrids in the class of vehicle I prefer to drive. No big deal gas is headed back down.
#97 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [fshi]
Jan 25, 2008 (10:45 pm)
How many "two mode" hybrid trucks has GM sold?
"making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient"
What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient"
If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better?
#98 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [aspesisteve]
Jan 25, 2008 (10:54 pm)
No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel.
Their hybrids are crap, especially the MALIBU HYBRID. Their E85 is a scam.
The main discussion here is the Malibu hybrid junk though and it's being compared to the Prius and Camry hybrid, which is real hybrid technology that saves fuel. It has nothing to do with how this truck or that truck compares or about buses. Just their scam at a hybrid for the Malibu and trying to make people think they are green.
#99 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [scortch]
Jan 26, 2008 (5:12 pm)
Toyota was lucky and may be visionary when they pushed for HYBRID technology 10 years ago when gas price was $1.00/gallon. GM leadership (Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz), on the other hand, killed the EV project since they were not making on selling this vehicle. But for fairness, GM, at that time had the most advanced Electric Vehicle technology. Hybrid vehicle today is just the extension to EV of the decade ago. It was largely the short-sightedness of GM leadership in dealing with changing times: they are about 5 years behind the curve on product planning.
But then the "greenish" Toyota that has opposed any raise on fleet CAFE. In addition, they are making bigger and more powerful engines. Selling 150K of Priuses a year would not make any dent in overall CO2 emission while selling 200K of the Tundra with gas guzzling 5.7L engine. The new HYDRID Highlander only get 26/25 MPG rating. And how about those $100K LS430H that only returns 20 MPG?. We may feel good driving these Hybrid vehicles, but the return for the investment is more than 15 years (with gas price at $3.00/gal) w/o subsidy from government. And who among us keeping 15 years old vehicle?
Toyota, has made the most of its green image. They are not here to save the planet; They are in business to make money. And they are very good at it. Last year, they made $ US 16 Bil (about 1/2 of Exxon Mobil). They are also calling themselves "American" car company by claiming building most of their vehicles in the US. Last time I checked, about only 50% of Toyota/Lexuses sold in this country are made here. The rest is from Japan. It is no different from the tag line from Wal-Mart years ago " We buy American wherever we can".
Car companies should have products for every price range. If one wants to get full hybrid option like the Prius or the new Two-Mode Tahoe, then pay the $5K-$10K premium for it. If the budget is ~$2K, then the mild hybrid like the current Malibu is good enough. If I have my choice, I would go for the clean Turbo Diesel like the M-B BlueTec since it offer the 30% gain in overall fuel efficiency ( in both City and Highway (not in the case of Toyota Hybrid)) and lower cost yet. In addition, it has ton of torque.
#100 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [aspesisteve]
Jan 26, 2008 (8:46 pm)
"What does GM offer to someone who wants to commute to work and back and get 50 miles per gallon? I'm not saying there's not a market for a fuel efficient truck, but a truck is inherrently flawed at becoming "fuel efficient" "
GM takes care of big suv/pickup customer first, while toyota takes care small car customer first, and in my opinion, since big suv/pickup customer comsums much more gas than small car customer, the impact gm is doing is much larger than what toyota is doing.
"If the Malibu Hybrid is an example of GM hybrid technology, what makes you think their hybrid truck will be any better? "
This shows how much you know about hybrid, malibu uses a BAS hybrid, tahoe uses a two-mode hybrid, it is very similar to toyota's hybrid yet provide another mode for highway cruise, usually give about 10% saving on highway as well.
#101 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [scortch]
Jan 26, 2008 (9:14 pm)
"No buses don't count because they have nothing to do with the discussion. GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. "
If you want to stay in the discussion, it is fine, concluding "GM is WAY behind in automobile technology that saves fuel. " is just too much and the conclusion can not be drew from the discussion of malibu hybrid.
As a matter of FACT, GM sedan fleet average is 28.9 while toyota is 28.1, tell me how come GM is slightly leading with this "WAY behind automotive technology"?
If you want to say malibu hybrid technology is behind prius', that is a valid statement, but you also need to say that malibu hybrid cost much less than prius'. that is a fair and complete statement.
#102 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [fshi]
Jan 27, 2008 (2:09 am)
I said behind in hybrid technology that matters.
Toyota is ahead in that they have had the Prius for 8+ years here and they have the camry and highlander that been out for years now, while GM's vehicles remained stagnant, and still are when it comes to true hybrid and fuel savings. Heck Prius' 8+ years ahead of them more than make up for the few miles here and there that they do better in regular. Then add in Camry and Highlander.
As far as the cost less on the Malibu hybrid, the whole point is, the hybrid they use was a TOTAL waste of time and money doing R&D and getting it into the car. Of course the POS cost less because it's worthless.
As far as GM's all electric vehicle, well, they shoulda and coulda but they didn't, mute point.
Making small cars more efficient is a lot better than making huge ones better. There are a LOT more of the smaller ones than those gas guzzling tanks, making smaller cars doing more to help.
GM just talks right now, they don't really act. Oh yea, the Volt, well, it's still a to come one of these millennium type cars. They don't have a CAR right now, today, that's a true hybrid getting really great mileage.
There ONLY reason to put out the Malibu Hybrid is to say, hey, look at us, we are green, see, we put out a hybrid. We are green, see, we put out environmentally damaging E85. Yea, look at us, we are green. We making our cars use corn based ethanol so you don't burn as much foreign oil (although we are taking your food supply with us, oh well). Don't worry about all the oil and natural gas we burn making it and transporting it. Don't worry about all the damage to the water supply and ocean from so much fertilizer being used. We gonna make it because the government pays us with your taxes to make it and we get credits.
When GM releases hydrogen and pure electric vehicles that are affordable, to the public, then people can say GM is green.
Yep, I agree, they need to start using the high tech diesels that burn a lot cleaner and can burn biofuel also. They would be better off with those than they would this E85 crap.
#103 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [scortch]
Jan 27, 2008 (8:49 am)
8 yrs of prius is NOTHING in the automotive industry, and the first 5yrs only sells a dozen thousands at most, as compare to the 16-17mln market. If toyota really care about green, why does it offer hybrid in its new tundra and sequoia? It does not know how to do it! Different companies have different priorities.
To be fair, as I said many times, toyota is far behind in the big vehicle segment, which is more important if you want green. If you want to talk about cars so that it is relevant to the discussion, then do not conclude toyota is overall greener. since it is greener only in the segment with a very small weighting factor because of the tiny small cars. I know this discussion is going nowher, I am stopping here.
#104 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [fshi]
Jan 27, 2008 (11:31 am)
GM is far behind period so do not conclude that GM is greener simply because they advertise they are, which we all know they aren't.
Believe it or not, I like GM for the most part. The last 5 of 7 cars (including the E85 capable Impala I have now) has been a GM vehicle.
I just think the E85 and so called Hybrid they trying to push on the public is crap and a scam and just to try and make them look better to people that want to be green and to get credits from the government. Each E85 vehicle they make, they get credits that allow them to slack on MPG in other places.