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Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Sedan
#124 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [fshi]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:15 am)
"GM has the two-mode hybrid technology at hand for suv/pickup truck, which consumes MUCH MORE gas than small cars, making small cars more efficient is FAR LESS important than making gas guzzlers more efficient"
getting a 10 percent gain (or even 20%) in a truck is more important than the Prius getting a 40% gain over a comprable compact?
If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure? Every bit helps, but to say that a truck hybrid does more for the environment than the Prius is hard to accept.
Sure the Suburban can do more when it's fully loaded, but that's about 3% of the time it's being used. For 97% of your daily driving, the Prius will suffice. But it takes a change in attitude to get people to realize that many truck owners are driving much more than they need.
Of course we're being hypothetical here because GM isn't selling anything yet.
Anyone out there know how many Malibu Hybrids have been sold or are slated to be built?
#125 of 163 Re: does anyone have a malibu hybrid?? [paisan1]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:16 am)
the accord was a performance hybrid that was real fun to drive,and I could care less about any mpg savings with that car.looking forward to more performance hybrids
Considering it was a flop and Honda had to put it out of its misery, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for more of that genre.
#126 of 163 Re: does anyone have a malibu hybrid?? [hwyhobo]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:41 am)
Lexus makes some performance hybrids, of course they're a little pricey.
#127 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [aspesisteve]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:51 am)
"getting a 10 percent gain (or even 20%) in a truck is more important than the Prius getting a 40% gain over a comprable compact?
If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure? Every bit helps, but to say that a truck hybrid does more for the environment than the Prius is hard to accept. "
where do you get the numbers, Tahoe goes from 14/20 to 20/21, 30 to 45 is local, percentage wise it is the same as Tahoe goes from 14/20. Now, do you understand which is more important?
"Sure the Suburban can do more when it's fully loaded, but that's about 3% of the time it's being used. For 97% of your daily driving, the Prius will suffice. But it takes a change in attitude to get people to realize that many truck owners are driving much more than they need."
You need to convince big suv buyers to abandon this segment, you do not even need a hybrid, live closer to where you work, and ride a bicycle, that is good for you health too
#128 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [scortch]
Jan 31, 2008 (12:00 pm)
"So where are you pulling your numbers from? I think I know. You can't average numbers like that. That's just playing the numbers to fit your attempt to justify GMs junk. 33 vs 24, 34 vs 32."
I assume average person drive 50% local and 50% highway, you may be different you never drive on highway.
The rest of the statement is just repeating what you said before, and we are arguing in a loop. Relax my friend, and have a nice day.
#129 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [aspesisteve]
Jan 31, 2008 (12:10 pm)
If a Chevy Suburban can go from 18 mpg to 20; that is more important than a compact going from 30 mpg to 45? How do you figure?
First off let's use real figures. The Honda Civic gets an epa average of 29 mpg. The Civic Hybrid gets 42 mpg. So over 15,000 miles the Civic owner could save 160 gallons by switching to the hybrid version.
The Chevy Tahoe gets 16 mpg, the Tahoe Hybrid gets 21. Over this same 15,000 miles the hybrid version will save 223 gallons. An additional 39% fuel savings over the Civic.
I can be argued that the Tahoe driver could save even more by transitioning to a smaller vehicle. I think we need to live in the real world. The Tahoe driver was not cross shopping this vehicle with Civics, Camrys, Accords, etc.. It is far more likely that he could be induced into purchasing a Tahoe Hybrid than a Camry or Civic hybrid. And the trucks/SUVs in this country use over 60% of the fuel while the passenger fleet uses less than 40%. If your goal is to save the most fuel, which group would you target first? However going from 29 to 42 mpg sounds much more impressive than going from 16 to 21 mpg and for a mathematically challenged populus it probably also makes for an easier sale.
#130 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [tpe]
Jan 31, 2008 (7:44 pm)
Your argument is correct for $3.00/gallon gas price. But if the price goes to $7-8/gallon like in Europe, then the US vehicle mix could change to favor cars or smaller vehicles (<4000 lbs). People will respond accordingly when every fill up costs them $100. A few years back who could imagine cars like Fit, Aveo, Cobalt, Focus, Sentra, Civic,... are in great demand today? Hope that new tech like clean diesel, light weight design, EV, Plug-in hybrid, ...will reduce the fill-up pain. Any improvement in MPG helps regardless how small since they all add up. Today some available technology could provide cars with better gas mileage in newer designs. They will add cost to vehicle, but may be lower than the full hybrid price tag of $6K-$10K 1. 6 speed AT : 3-5% in improvement 2. VCM or AFC (cylinder shut off); 5-10% 3. Light Weight: 2-3% 4. Stop/Start 5-10% (more for Chicago and LA traffic) 5. Turbo Diesel: 30% 6. Small Turbo Gas: ? 7. Direct Gas injection : 2-3%, cleaner exhaust, more HP 8. Better Aerodynamic 2-3% (more for boxy truck) jt
#131 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [jnt]
Jan 31, 2008 (8:18 pm)
I agree that as gas prices go up more people will place a higher priority on fuel efficiency, meaning a lot of drivers will be giving up their full sized SUVs.
Let's look at this totally independent of fuel prices. I believe that the biggest advantage of hybrid technology is the ability to recapture kinetic energy lost due to braking. That being the case there will always be more energy lost on vehicles with more mass. So that's where there is the most energy to recapture, i.e. the biggest benefit. In terms of fuel savings the absolue best application of hybrid technology would be in transit buses and delivery trucks. The least benefit would be in vehicles with small mass. The problem is that no one's impressed by a metro bus that has increased its fuel efficiency from 3 mpg to 5 mpg but they are impressed by a Prius that gets 50 mpg.
Again, while Toyota's hybrid technology may be impressive their choice of application is driven by how it will affect their image. I don't give them credit for being "greener" than GM but I do give them credit for realizing the value of image and how it affects their bottom line. I think that GM has also realized this and have tipped their hat to Toyota's insight into how the consumer's mind works.
I think that GM might have actually given the consumer too much credit. While Toyota took a page from P. T. Barnum and subscribed to the philosophy, "you'll never go broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people".
#132 of 163 Re: gm does not have a capable hybrid? [tpe]
Jan 31, 2008 (10:26 pm)
The Tahoe may get more technically but, you will still pay twice as much for fuel to drive something that's rarely used to it's full potential.
#133 of 163 Any chance we could
Feb 04, 2008 (10:44 am)
actually talk about the Malibu Hybrid, instead of "GM sucks", "no it doesn't", "yes it does" over and over and over?