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Hybrid Vehicles Lexus GS 450h Lexus GS 450h MPG-Real World Numbers
86 messages, Last post on Sep 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
You are in the Lexus GS 450h Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: idele (Sep 26, 2006 12:50 pm) exactly (although I had heard that the 450H compared to even more powerful sport sedans, but your numbers are more conservative, so better for any analytical discussion) there is this mythology that the GS450H gets bad mpg, since it doesn't get 40 mpg The GS is not comparable to any other car that gets over 25 mpg. It is comparable to cars that get 15 mpg, 20 at best no, it is not going to save the world from OPEC but if everyone that bought a 15 mpg gas burning performance sedan bought the GS450H instead, we'd have a 50% (at least) increase in fuel efficiency in that segment, and that ain't bad I guess we could do better if we simply outlawed the entire segment. I have no interest in that sort of approach, however, nor do the great majority of American drivers, I would bet. |
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Replying to: alp8 (Sep 26, 2006 1:40 pm) But, most important to me is that this car is really fun to drive and it is a green luxury!
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Replying to: flid (Sep 26, 2006 3:42 pm) 1) Switch the engine from six to three cylinders when in "economy" mode, 2) Let the battery discharge more than is needed for performance when in "economy" mode. (Recharging of the battery would rely more on braking and less on the engine. Which, of course, leaves less battery reserves for the take off but should result in higher city MPG.) 3) Reduce the power of the electric motor by only engaging a portion of the motor coil. Less power = higher efficiency. Toyota created an amazing machine and I am not criticizing the car at all. It would just be fun to have the switch that others have suggested. And there are ways to do it that would work. Think outside of the box that Toyota built. |
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Replying to: flid (Sep 26, 2006 3:42 pm) Thank you, flid. I consider that very high praise. Congrats on your new car. You've made almost a 100% improvement in your fuel economy. That's a pretty nice statement. I am not one of those environmentalists that criticizes anyone who doesn't drive a 50 mpg vehicle (or anyone who drives anything), and I am pretty hard core in my environmental beliefs. If we could get every car owner to make SOME positive adjustment (like yours), we could have a real impact on our country's energy independence, and have a positive impact on our local and global environment. Now how can we get you to turn off the air conditioning in your 5,000 square foot house, once in a while? 
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Replying to: alp8 (Sep 26, 2006 7:35 pm) "I have heard about a performance vs. economy switch. An executive from Toyota was talking about it several months ago. Then, I gave a call to an engineer at Toyota who tossed aside those comments as marketing hype, saying that it's not nearly so easy. The entire system needs to be built to support a certain level of performance/efficiency, and you can't simply switch from one to another, with adding a ton more complexity and cost. That's all I know." In line with prior comments. I thought it would good in theory, but real world engineering issues are another story. |
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Replying to: idele (Sep 26, 2006 12:50 pm) YMMV. Driving style has much more influence on a Hybrid than an conventional car. Does the average GS owner wish to "baby" the vehicle to get maximum MPG?
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Replying to: stevedebi (Sep 28, 2006 9:34 am) Is that really true? My primary ride is not a hybrid. Depending on how I drive it, I can get 21 on the highway or 24.5 on the highway. That's a pretty significant difference. And I'm not talking about driving 80 versus driving 55. I'm talking about the difference between rapid acceleration and gentle acceleration (and operating at 70 versus 80) The difference in my commute time is probably 1 minute, and I get there less stressfully. It's been eye opening for me. I should have started this practice ten years ago. The average GS owner likely has at least some desire to get good mpg, or he would have bought a different car. He could get the same performance but much worse mpg had he bought something else. But he chose to buy the H, for some reason. Not saying he is gonna baby it at every turn, but he might baby it on occasion (as I am with my non-hybrid)
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Replying to: alp8 (Sep 28, 2006 10:37 am) I'm not yet at 3000 miles but the average mpg over the car's lifetime has moved up to 28 mpg. It's not unexpected because the tank average mpg consistently stays above 28 mpg. I mentioned in a prior post the S mode that is on the gearshift. The S mode lets the transmission mimic a six speed. I have never used it. If one has a stick shift, one knows to keep the car in the highest gear to improve fuel efficiency. It might be possible with the S mode to do something similar to increase mpg. |
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This idea is going to sound crazy to many, but would it be possible to modify the 450h to make it a plug-in for better effective gas mileage while retaining the performance it has now?
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Replying to: wannabe (Oct 08, 2006 8:28 pm) From what I've learned, the reason they do this is because NiMH batteries lose efficiency when they are fully charged and discharged over time - so it works great to start with, but the batteries gradually lose charge-recharge ability and therefore massively decrease the life of the battery and fairly quickly reduce performance. Li-ion on the other hand, take full recharge/discharge cycles without any real problems, but they have a fixed number of cycles before the die completely - think of a 2-3 year old cellphone or laptop, the battery suddenly stops holding as much charge and you have to replace it. For the plug-in Prius, this apparently means you get a couple of years of extreme economy, and then need to replace the battery pack. According to an interview with Toyota engineers I read, this is why they haven't pursued plug-ins - the battery technology is not there to support it for the 8-10 year life they need to get on the batteries. At least not yet, there's a lot of research going on into batteries, so the problem should resolve over time. What I've wondered about is leaving the NiMH batteries in place, and supplementing with Li-Ion that plugs in with a suitable micro-controller to feed from the Li-Ion batterines into the NiMH pack - which would allow you to use the battery for longer on full electric before the combined battery drops below the 30% mark that apparently triggers the engine to come on. Of course, that would probably mean you'd lose most of the rest of the trunk space...
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