Last post on Feb 09, 2013 at 10:09 AM
You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac CTS, Cadillac CTS-V, Sedan
#3559 of 6595 Still More On CTS Pricing
Jun 20, 2003 (2:19 pm)
Yes, the CTS is "expensive", and looks like it will be getting more expensive. That's why I call the one I got an "Introductory Offer" from Cadillac. Thank you, GM! I got it while I could afford it. Zero percent interest, no down, 90 days to start paying, PLUS my company's "Friends & Family" discount was just too good to pass up.
Let's be honest: ALL of these high-end Luxury Autos are EXPEN$IVE. There's no getting around it. I hate the comparison to the foreign makes. Those so-called "competitors with lower prices" just don't have all the high tech stuff a Caddy has. Do they have a Driver's Information Center with over 30 individual driver programmable features? Like radio, seat, mirror and temperature settings for two drivers? Does it have Onstar (a marvel in itself) or a NAV system you can download your email or stock information to? Can the NAV system read HTML files? Do they have an equivalent to Stabiltrak 2.0? Not likely. I could go on and on about all the techie stuff this car has (that's why the Owner's Manual is a must read on the CTS). You pay alot for this miracle of engineering. It's not just about the cool engine or looks, it's also about the technology included in the package. And the CTS has alot built into even the standard base $30,000 model.
Too be up front about it, I could barely afford to buy our 2003 CTS. Luckily I love this model, because if I had wanted a DHS, DTS, STS, SLS, Escalade or Escalade EXT I'd be totally out of luck. A $50,000 to $70,000 car is just out of my league. Not to mention the 8.25% sales tax here in California and the high annual License Tax Fees (thank you Mr. Davis).
Here in L.A. I'm continually amazed at the $70,000 plus cars I see running around. How people afford them is beyond me. How Mercedes, BMW or Lexus can charge $90,000 for a car or SUV is amazing. So worrying about the CTS at $35,000 - $40,000 seems to be a moot point in the big picture. And a 400 HP low production version for $50,000? Either you can afford it, or not. If not just go buy something else, or buy a used one next year. For me I won't buy anything less than an American designed car and luckily the new CTS fits the bill. Yes, my payments may be "breath taking" to some, but so is the car.
#3560 of 6595 For The Record: Competitor's Prices Lower?
Jun 20, 2003 (2:31 pm)
"Two models are initially available: Mercedes CLK320 and CLK500. We expect them to retail between $43,500 and $54,500."
"Retail prices for sedans: BMW 540i ($54,545)."
These are equally priced competitors to the CTS? Hmmm.... :>)
#3561 of 6595 wulf007
Jun 20, 2003 (3:14 pm)
No way am I letting you off that easily.
Your post was about a 50K CTS-V. And it was your feeling that the price of admission was too high.
I will ask the question again. Name 1 sedan that has the performance of the CTS-V that is within 10K of it's MSRP.
The 540i cost 5K more and has a 100hp less.
The CTS-V will have 400hp, there is nothing in the under 50K that will have that kind of performance.
There is simply nothing available now or in the pipeline for the next 2 years that will do what the CTS-V will do at the under 50K price point.
You are writing the check so I can't speak to whether the CTS is up your expectations. It is certainly different in it's interior and exterior design. And it falls between the 3 series and the 5 series which makes a direct comparison almost impossible.
The objective numbers tell me that the 400 hp 3850 lb car will have a power to weight ratio of 9.6.
That virtually guarantees a sub 5 second 0-60 time.
Sorry if I am being defensive, but GM has always offered a lot of bang for the buck in their performance cars. If you want a different feel then BMW or Mercedes may be the way to go.
If you choose a Audi, BMW, Jaguar or Mercedes in the 50K range you will just have to accept that it will be slower.
#3562 of 6595 CTSV Projected Price
Jun 20, 2003 (3:25 pm)
Since the projected price of the CTSV is $50k and the challenge was to find competing sedans within $10k, the CLK500 and BMW 540i are well within that range. I was comparing similar cars with similar options thus V8 to V8 etc. Using the Edmunds pricing option getting the 2004 CTS with 3.6 engine and the other high end options that were bragged about above (Navigation etc) comes out to $43.5K (without taxes and docs which are high here in California). For a 6 cylinder, an exceptional 6 cylinder, but still a 6. And I was speaking of the CTSV, which looks like it will be a fine car. Once again my point wasn't to knock the CTS, it was the attitude of Cadillac and its dealers, at least here in So. Cal. What part of attitude adjustment don't you get? The CTS may be hot now but it may not always be that way (sic transit gloria mundae). So treat potential customers with a little respect and can the take it or leave it attitude. I can afford any of the cars listed in my first post. I wanted to replace my current German performance car with an American made car. But $50K with an attitude leaves me headed elsewhere. And the residual value of the BMW and CLK are higher than the CTS which I didn't even factor in. Again, the CTS is a fine car, the CTSV may be an exceptional car, but probably not worth my $50K. Others may disagree and want to buy two. Its not about the car as much as the attitude.
#3563 of 6595 wulf007
Jun 20, 2003 (3:37 pm)
I have redone my post #3552.
Fully loaded '04 CTS has gone up quite a bit.
CTS is priced like 3 series but closer in size to
I think 5 series has better front legroom(I am 6'7").
Cadillac dealers have some serious spending to do on their facilities and staff.
The best thing about the CTS is that it has made Cadillac cool again.
#3564 of 6595 necros
Jun 20, 2003 (3:41 pm)
Any pics of the CTS with it's front wheels up?
#3565 of 6595 ctsjerry
Jun 20, 2003 (3:47 pm)
Wish I could afford a CTS with most of the options, but there is no way I am spending $5200 on a 1SB package to get the $645 Xenon headlights.
I predict there will be a healthy blackmarket in CTS xenon headlights the way there is with the Acura TL's being liberated and installed in Accords.
#3566 of 6595 Miscellaneous....Clock, Options, Pricing, etc.
Jun 20, 2003 (3:51 pm)
CLOCK rob35cts: Thanks for the info on the clock fix. I was at my dealers service dept today and they were going to look into any TSBs on the clock. According to the service guy Cadillac's "fix" for the clock was to stick in a temp gauge in place of the clock in new models...he said they were never able to get many of the clocks to sync up properly. That doesn't do me very much good unless they are willing to replace my instrument cluser like they did on yours or unless I trade my CTS in on a 2004. Regardless, I'll talk to them more next week when I take my car in to get a couple of annoying squeaks fixed.
REBATES berrycherry: I know this isn't "positive" but I disagree with your opinion that GM shoud be required to give a loyalty discount to all former GM customers. SHOULD GM give a loyalty discount? -Yes, IMO...but a class action lawsuit to get a few bucks off of a new car is ridiculous! Also, I don't know what you're referring to by your repeat reference to a Ford discount. I'm a former Ford driver and have driven NOTHING but Ford until recently. If you read the fine print they give a discount on all cars EXEPT anything you'd actually want to buy or that could be considered highly 'desireable' such as the SVT models, Cobra or Mach Mustang, Thunderbird, and/or Harley Davidson. Really there's no point in arguing the GM/Ford incentives since Ford hasn't made a decent 4 door sedan in YEARS and offers nothing currently that could even come close to competing with the CTS. If you're unhappy with GMs pricing structure feel free to buy a Taurus!
PRICING ctsjerry: I couldn't agree more with your comments on pricing. My wife and I tend to be on the bleeding edge when it comes to buying/accepting new products and designs as we were when buying the CTS. I remember the naysayers who predicted poor resale value for the CTS and said that it was a 'dated' look. It seems that used CTS's are holding their value fine and that the design is becoming MORE popular as other manufacturers try and copy the look. Popularity is increasing and price follows. I only hope I'll be able to afford the V series when it comes time to trade my CTS in on a new model.
SADDENING cjs2002: I don't know what part of the country you live in, but here on the West Coast there are plenty of base model/base model w/auto CTS's on the lots. Don't give up and buy a G35 yet!
OPTIONS wwhite2: Of course you're happy with the option packages since you HAVE every option! I'd be happy if black was the only color option since that's the one I chose but that doesn't mean that others wouldn't like more choices. My biggest gripe is not so much the option and pricing structure but the fact Cadillac is trying to go "upscale" with the entire line yet I have a manual seat positioning bar that sticks out 3" on the passenger side, no homelink garage door opener, and no compass on my base model CTS...these basic luxuries come standard on many 'lesser' (and less expensive) cars.
WHEELS: The design of both 16" and 17" wheels is great but I like neither. IMO they are both undersized...give us 18" wheels on the CTS!!!!
XENON HEADLIGHTS: I'm glad I didn't get this option since the stock lights are PLENTY bright. Those lamp washers on the Xenon package sure look cool though!
#3567 of 6595 rebates/incentives,etc.
Jun 20, 2003 (4:08 pm)
I think the most important thing gM needs to work on is the resale value. If they were to price the vehicles correctly out of the box there would be no need for $3-4000 incentives.
My '01 Impala has dropped over 50% in 2 years.
That is just plain scary.
#3568 of 6595 b4z - Xenon Lights
Jun 20, 2003 (4:08 pm)
Hi b4z- I need to check my Sticker. I think I paid $450 for my HID lights, but I'm not sure (Senior Moment). I do recall my BMW buddy told me the price I was paying was a steal compared to BMW HIDs. And to ADD them to a BMW is thousands of dollars. At least that's what he said, and I got them. They are really nice. No shadow effect like some folks say about the standard lights. As I've posted before, the HIDs are a product of Hughes Electronics. The light cuts off horizontally at about rear trunk level on the cars ahead of me. Bright light below, completely dark above. Doesn't blind oncoming drivers. Very cool!