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True cost of ethanol

84 messages,  Last post on Jun 02, 2009 at 11:56 AM

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What is this discussion about? Alternative Fuels

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#75 of 84 Forging ahead by pf_flyer HOST Jan 15, 2008 (6:04 am)
Some more biofuel news and commentary on the Alternate Route!   (What) Were They Thinking?
#76 of 84 Re: Maybe not water in itself [galvang] by galvang Jan 21, 2008 (8:05 pm)
Replying to: galvang (Jan 12, 2008 3:36 pm) In the February issue of Popular Science there is an interesting article on hydrogen driven hypersonic jet or a Green Hyper-jet. It's fantasy at this point but it's interesting that somebody is having thought in developing such a plane. It will travel at mach 5 (3000mph) and it could reach London in two hours theoretically emission free.   The Green Hyper-jet will be powered by liquid hydrogen fuel, which can be made by water.   In going back to renewable water, one other reason that water is renewable is the fact that sewage water can be recycled for fuel or for other uses. Is a hydrogen economy coming?? Maybe, but that's many years down the road from now. Replies to this message: cvs20 (May 27, 2009 2:01 pm)
#77 of 84 Curious by pf_flyer HOST Nov 19, 2008 (12:02 pm)
Some stations have labels on the pumps that say, "Contains Ethanol". Some have labels saying, "Contains Up To 10% Ethanol"   Was that just a transitional thing as ethanol-laced gas was added to underground tanks until all the gas is 10% diluted, or are there places using less than 10% mixes? Replies to this message: cvs20 (May 25, 2009 3:44 pm)
#78 of 84 Re: Curious [pf_flyer] by cvs20 May 25, 2009 (3:44 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 19, 2008 12:02 pm) That type of labeling permits the fuel suppliers to mix up to 10% ethanol, and still legally sell it as a vehicle fuel which may, or may not, have been altered. If the fuel DOES contain 10% ethanol, your vehicle will burn about 5% more than pure gasoline, so, if you pay $2.50 per gallon for the blend, it will ultimately cost the same as if you bought pure gasoline at $2.62 per gallon.
#79 of 84 Re: MIT study confirms benifits [gagrice] by cvs20 May 26, 2009 (6:03 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 28, 2007 8:01 am) Last I saw in chemistry, cellulosic material does not make ethanol. It makes Methanol. Each is an alcohol, but it takes 2.00 gallons of Methanol, and ONLY 1.50 gallons of ethanol to replace 1.00 gallon of pure gasoline.
#80 of 84 Re: what's not said... [scortch] by cvs20 May 26, 2009 (6:17 pm)
Replying to: scortch (Jan 10, 2008 7:05 am) There is no such thing as "cellulosic ethanol" PERIOD.  Cellulose makes METHANOL (called wood alcohol) which DOES require less energy input to produce, but ALSO supplies less energy when burned. Methanol provides about 25% LESS energy than Ethanol, and Ethanol provides 66% less energy than gasoline.   I am NOT trying to downgrade either, just trying to provide some FACTS amongst a great deal of speculation.   Worst comes to worst, you can drink ethanol, but not methanol !! The prime reason for E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) is to make the E85 ethanol UNDRINKABLE!
#81 of 84 Re: Maybe not water in itself [galvang] by cvs20 May 27, 2009 (2:01 pm)
Replying to: galvang (Jan 21, 2008 8:05 pm) Popular Science magazine was probably THE most influential read during my formative years. Unfortunately, some of the technologies published were less than viable. I still love the magazine but some folks have "read-in" their own "take" on stuff. Yes, hydrogen and oxygen can be separated from water, at great expense. (The expense is NOT a conspiracy, but a fact of physics and chemistry - NOT SUBJECT to debate, discussion, or any wishful thinking!! The energy obtained combining hydrogen with oxygen, whether in fuel cells, or as a "fuel" is less than that required for the hydrolysis required to separate them from water.   Whether anyone out there believes, or not, HYDROGEN is not currently a viable fuel for ANYTHING. It requires more energy (read as other fuel) to separate H2 from O2 than is recovered (read as used) in either fuel cells, or direct combustion.   At this point in time, and technology, HYDROGEN is nothing more than a BATTERY, i.e., storage device.
#82 of 84 Latest update by yerth10 Jun 02, 2009 (11:03 am)
Ethanol stations in USA have hit 2,000 mark.   Its the fast growing fuel with 16 million Flexfuel vehicles worldwide.   Since all gas stations are franchise of Big Oil, Ethanol has to be sold only thru them and they price it only 10 % below gas.   I wish Ethanol makes like ADM, Poet start their own E85 stations and sell it at a slight profit. As gas prices increase, more people may start buying this fuel.
#83 of 84 Future of Ethanol by yerth10 Jun 02, 2009 (11:10 am)
As Chinese and other start buying more vehicles and the price of gas will go up, since the supply can never meet the demand.   No other go, but to bring up alternative fuels and the #1 here is Ethanol. Brazilians are able to make it for a price much lesser than gasolene, we can start importing from them as well. Replies to this message: pf_flyer (Jun 02, 2009 11:56 am)
#84 of 84 Re: Future of Ethanol [yerth10] by pf_flyer HOST Jun 02, 2009 (11:56 am)
Replying to: yerth10 (Jun 02, 2009 11:10 am) It's a BAD alternative. It saves nothing and at the moment it turns food into fuel and drives up commodity prices to boot.

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