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Lexus ES 350, Car Leasing, Car Buying, Sedan
#1530 of 2855 good price for Lexus ES 350 in Florida
Aug 12, 2008 (2:24 pm)
I'm in the market for a 2008 Lexus ES 350 and live in the northern part of Florida. Has anyone found a good price for the ES equipped with nav, premium plus, etc. in Florida. What should I expect to pay and can you recommend a dealer? Thanks.
Also, does anyone have any idea of any changes for 2009? I realize it's only a month or so away, so perhaps I should wait.
#1531 of 2855 Buying in Metro DC Area (MD,VA)
Aug 14, 2008 (9:09 pm)
Thinking of buying a 2008 ES350 in the DC area. I know there is a dealer in Rockville, Silver Spring and Alexandria. Cananyone share some info for me on your ecperiences at any of these dealerships and what you got for the money in the last few months or so. I plan to purchase in the next 2-3 weeks and pay cash. Hope I can get a deal.
#1533 of 2855 Negotiating for Seattle/Bellevue area ES350 deal
Aug 15, 2008 (4:22 pm)
Hello everyone and I'd like to thank everyone for the great information that has lead me to change my opinion about how I should go about negotiating a good price. I was aiming to get an invoice price deal but have seen several of you have managed to score deals $1500 below invoice in various parts of the country. I have the option to purchase in California, Washington, or Oregon for a car that will live in Seattle... so I would prefer to purchase up in Seattle. My wife is moving up there and I'm staying down here. This is a temporary thing. We already have a car so we both need a car and it doesn't matter who gets the Lexus. So the determining factor is where I can get the best bottom line price. We're leaning to purchase in Seattle, but if we save more than $500-$1000 in SoCal, we'll buy it down here and ship up the other car.
Here are the numbers which was agreed to sell at invoice:
Description: MSRP / Dealer
Base: 33820 / 28973
Options: 7650 / 6260
Rear Seat Airbags: 250 / 200
Full Size Spare: 205 / 164
HID Headlights: 815 / 168
Nav System: 2650 / 2230
Premium Plus: 2480 / 2058
Parking Assist: 500 / 400
Wood & Leather Steering Wheel: 330 / 264
Preferred Accessorie Pkg: 210 / 124
Other Charges: 2286
Destination Charge: 765
Dealer Holdback: 676
Whsl Financial Reserve: 338
Sale Price: $37,519 (at invoice)
Extra Fees for Out the Door: 2286
Doc Fee: 50
License Fee: 195.75
Out the door price: $41,245
Now I haven't gone back yet, but I know I can do a lot better, as people are getting similarly equipped cars for $38k-$39k out the door (those quotes didn't have the parking assist which is $400+tax more). So I'll say 38.5-39k should be my goal.
So my thoughts on these fees:
Don't pay holdback
Don't pay Whsl Financial Reserve
According to Edmunds, Doc fee is a max of $35 in Washington. That's a $15 difference, but perhaps it's old list and the fees have gone up? Can anyone confirm?
Also average license fee is $57 but they are quoting $195... I do realize it's a lot more expensive than the average car, so I wonder if this fee is based on a percentage of the sale price? Anyone know how to calculate this?
The sales tax is higher than the 8.9% for that state, even when I add in all OTD fees before calculating it. My assumption was that I should pay $37519 * 8.9% = $3339. There seems to be an ominous $150 overcharge here which works out to another 0.4%... is there a regional tax added to that for Bellevue?
The holdback and reserve adds up to $1010. If that reduces the price to $36509, the taxes would go down to $3395 (assuming 9.4%). And tack in the unmodified prices ($245)... new total would be $40149... $1100 cheaper than the current bid.
So I know I have a lot of questions, but I'm struggling with what is considered invoice price. My guess is that it is in fact, $36509 (base invoice + option invoice + destination charges + TDA). Last thing I want is to negotiate invoice minus $1500 and then they try to charge me destination and TDA on top of that. If I can get the car for $35009, that would make the OTD price $38500...
Do you guys have any thoughts on tactics on how realistic this deal (invoice - $1500 without charging holdback or wholesale financial reserve) is and how I would make the approach? I'm also talking to Tustin -- which seems to be quite a good dealer to buy cars from (with lower taxes but higher license fees). I am assuming due to slow sales and other people being able to make similar deals that these guys must be facing some kickbacks clearly exceeding $1500 per car otherwise they would be losing money on those deals. This leads me to believe they are receiving hidden kickbacks exceeding $2500-$3000 on these cars right now to make those deals worth doing.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated. I have so many questions! I'll definitely share my results.
#1534 of 2855 MF and residual for Texas
Aug 17, 2008 (12:21 am)
Hi, does anyone know the current MF for Texas? I'm interested in a 36mo 12K lease and I was quoted .00175 (Tier 1) with a 52% residual. The MF seems high but inline with what I've been reading. I've asked them to tell me their buy rate so I can see how much they've marked it up. The initial gross cap cost they quoted was around $38918 (I know this is high...I'm shooting for invoice or a little over invoice) and net cap is around $40100 (this includes $182. for doc and fees and $600 acquisition fee + $469 tax).
There is a tax incentive right now so the tax rate is 1.25% which for us Texans is good since we have to pay tax on the entire purchase.
BTW - remarchcs, while I'm not familiar with the west coast, the license fee in my area of TX was quoted at $68.80 - far less than your quote...but then again I, too, don't know how this is calculated.
#1535 of 2855 Re: Negotiating for Seattle/Bellevue area ES350 deal [remarhcs]
Aug 18, 2008 (10:44 am)
Okay, so I just bought the above car at Tustin Lexus -- but without the parking sensors which would have been $400 invoice more. We agreed to go there based on him selling the car OTD for $38.5k. He stated verbally that he'll make the deal happen but wasn't permitted to ever quote under invoice in writing. But I warned him, don't waste my time because I'll just walk out. He acknowledged and we scheduled an appointment for the next day. It was a 1 hour drive for us to get there, with wife and baby in tow. We showed up, test drove the exact car, then went inside to do the deal. I saw it coming though... as we went through all this paper work, investing all this time before getting to the price. Then it came... what is your offer? I immediately answered, we previously agreed to $38.5k out the door. He didn't remember that, and I started getting ready to leave. My wife didn't want to leave, so we started haggling and going back and forth about prices and showing me the invoice. Their invoice was $37119 for this exact car which included holdback and wholesale reserve ($1003). I told them I wouldn't pay for that, so they took off $1000. I still didn't want to play that game as he wanted me to make an offer base price rather than OTD price... giving him more numbers to play with. He kept "going to his manager" and coming back with different numbers and went on like this for quite some time. I offered $35600 + TTL (no holdback/no wholesale) and said I'd walk out if I didn't get it. And they wouldn't go down below $36119, so we walked out. My wife was telling me, I hope you know what your doing. I was basing my prices largely on this forum. Other dealers weren't getting down to these kinds of numbers. As we were loading up the baby, they approached us and said the salesguy would take a smaller commission and give it to us for $36000 + T&L. I almost had a single tear.
I told him to run the numbers, and we'll see where we get. I already knew we were around $39.5... and it came out to $39,346. However they botched the county tax seeing we were in LA county instead of Orange county, so they attempted to add the 0.5% tax difference. I said no... that's the price, so they agreed to eat the taxes. When I saw the final breakdown, it appears they took the difference out of the "estimated" license fees.
We did qualify for their tier 1 credit and financed at 3.9% over 5 years. One last annoyance, was that the car we purchased had $1995 chrome upgraded wheels which we didn't want. They didn't have anyone there to change them as it was 6pm, so we had to drive back the next morning to pick up the car.
So basically we paid $846 more than what we considered to be a great deal and it came down to us having limited time and energy to deal for that price. Hopefully we don't get haunted by DMV for underpayment of license fees. But the car is going to Washington state so I'm not too worried, but not sure how that's going to work.
But I did feel like we were bait & switched and not too happy about that. If I could do things differently, I would simply give the dealer an ultimatum and say, quote me this price out the door or I won't show up. That was my mistake. I hope someone else can take my experience and do better!
#1536 of 2855 Re: Negotiating for Seattle/Bellevue area ES350 deal [remarhcs]
Aug 18, 2008 (11:45 am)
Hey, that sounds like a great deal (even though you had to go through hoops to get it)!
I'm in the process now of getting all the numbers via email and having some success. This is of course after they try to get me to come in and discuss the car but I usually write back saying something like "to help maximize your time and mine, obtaining all the numbers up front ensures the process is quick and efficient when/if I buy the car. I'm sure you'll agree time is an important commodity in this day and age and I'm certain if we can get the basics out of the way, we can do business together"...or something to that effect. Since I lease I always ask for the buy rate too. It's down to Lexus and BMW at this moment.
#1537 of 2855 Re: Negotiating for Seattle/Bellevue area ES350 deal [madd66]
Aug 18, 2008 (12:13 pm)
Good luck! Btw, we used to have BMWs, and this ES350 is the size of a 5 series. So far we are very happy with the ES350 because the options are so superior as you get so much more for you money. But nothing drives like a BMW, but as new parents, performance and aggressive agility isn't important for us anymore (okay me...). The nav system is industry best. I really like the subtle details like showing me in advance which of the six lanes is valid to be in rather than "keep left" or "keep right".
#1538 of 2855 Re: Price I paid in Bay Area California [thepope69]
Aug 19, 2008 (11:15 am)
Its a great price. Did you deal with the internet sales manager there?
Let me know
#1539 of 2855 Re: Price I paid in Bay Area California [sunnfun]
Aug 19, 2008 (5:02 pm)
Did you buy it in Virginia? Which dealership? I am in the market to get one, please help. Thanks,