Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Camry Hybrid Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers
856 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:38 AM
You are in the Toyota Camry Hybrid Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
|
Replying to: cdn_tch (Feb 03, 2009 2:37 pm) re: driving optimally (i've already considered some or most of these things) live in ohio, car in heated apartment garage. rarely use "internal car heater", just front/rear defroster without fan. i turn these off at stops so AS can engage. (otherwise car will stay at 0 MPG) as far as ICE working until car heats up - far left dial is past "blue zone" almost immediately (few blocks) and stays almost in middle for the rest of trip. shouldn't that mean TCH is at operating temp? MID and dial show battery mode or EV mode engaged, but yes mostly ICE mode. 5 - 10 MPG variations are acceptable for some drivers, but i bought my TCH expecting very close to EPA estimate (1-2 deviation) and a return on my 29K investment. forums like these with thousands of "meets and exceeds EPA" posts were also an influence - including non-paid endorsements by media. whenever someone posts like me here, it seems they get a few responses like those i have received and then nothing.... at least there is a moderator and i hope NOT to suffer the verbal abuse that is rampant on the john true v.s honda site. thanks,
|
|
|
Replying to: orly1 (Feb 03, 2009 3:55 pm) On another forum, someone recently posted that while it looks like it is at full operating temps, it is still about 20C less than during the summer (70C vs 90C). You say your TCH is 7 months old, what was your mileage in the first couple of months? Overall, I think you will see your averages start going up with the outside temps in a few months.
|
|
|
Replying to: cdn_tch (Feb 03, 2009 4:32 pm) only first tank of gas "met or exceeded" EPA estimates.  after that can sometimes reach 31 MPG tank ave., usually directly after fill up if i take her out on highway with cruise on. then next day MPG slowly returns to between 26 -28 and sometimes highway drive won't improve it.  i want to reply to larsb, think he is correct, i might have a lemon  please give me any new ideas. thanks |
|
|
Replying to: larsb (Feb 03, 2009 2:54 pm) thanks for all the posts, read many of them before i posted so i believe i have a good understanding of these mileage variables. besides wouldn't the dealer/mechanic detect more obvious things like tire pressure or specs? yes, that's what i thought, a "hypermiler" should "borrow" this car and see if driving technique changes anything. my scientific mind says; there should be a way to objectively determine if consistently LOW MPG is user error  OR something wrong with this particular car  perhaps i'm dreaming but my first thought was... rather than denying my assertion that MPG has been for most part 26-28, TOYOTA should play "hypermiler" and offer to take the vehicle themselves (for a reasonable amount of time) and see if they can get close to EPA estimate. worse yet, for Toyota to claim that 5-10 below EPA estimates is "normal" and they never implied otherwise during sale? PLEASE! MPG is biggest selling point. BTW: thank you so much for proving you are not a "ringer" for Toyota with your honest and practical reply. as for The problem with that is that if indeed all the hybrid components ARE performing up to spec, then the CAR WILL INDEED be able to achieve EPA results under at least SOME circumstances. the last post on the john true vs honda page says something like "would you buy a gallon of milk that advertised... will taste and have the nutritional value of milk under at least SOME circumstances... carton may or may not contain full gallon etc." a small MPG variance from EPA would have been acceptable. i believe Toyota and/or Honda would be better off dealing with the consumer than putting up such a fight. it's all about good customer relations and truth in advertising. as far as i can tell, since my TCH checks out o.k. on their computer - there is NO NEXT STEP. Toyota has nothing in place to deal with loyal consumers who are having my same problem. i suspect there are enough people in my boat that these law suits will continue especially since consumers are being told "deal with it". i very much appreciate the fact that i am not being called "stupid" by this forum for basing my choice of car on advertising, media forums and blogs and EPA MPG estimates. the backlash against john true vs honda has been shameful. my TCH may be a lemon OR Toyota may be facing a bigger problem. They would not be the first to "deny, deny deny" until someone took legal action. in all, i'm very disappointed with Toyota right now. thanks
|
|
|
Replying to: orly1 (Feb 03, 2009 5:40 pm) here is the EPA site that has various graphs http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/quickdds.htm here is the graph of the EPA highway driving cycle. http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/hwfetdds.gif And the city cycle. http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/uddsdds.gif |
|
|
hello cdn tch, thanks for the reply. are you talking to me? i really don't know what i'm looking at. if it helps improve performance - i'll bite. here's my REAL problem. i made my purchase based on advertising, media forums and blogs and EPA MPG estimates all of which promise a return on investment through gas savings. another thread HERE http://townhalltalk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0dc3d7/530!make=Toyota&model=Camry%20Hybr- id&ed_makeindex=.f0dc3d7 doesn't seem to have a single post about real world estimates being consistently off. there is always someone to correct the math... so if my numbers are 26/28 cty/hwy (rarely reaching 31 MPG) aren't i consistently 25% under EPA estimate? plain and simple, i never would have bought this car if Toyota had said "your EPA MAY vary up to 25%, we don't guarantee performance nor assist customers with poor MPG performance" HERE's a suggestion... someone should track these LOW MPG claims and invent a "do-hicky" that can attach to the car to distinguish between driver error and true car performance under average conditions. What's my next step - other people who post with this issue seem to just give up 
|
|
|
Replying to: orly1 (Feb 04, 2009 12:25 pm) Next step: You really need to find a local hypermiler who can test your car. There is something wrong with the HSD system in your car only if that person cannot do what they think they can do with the MPG. If you were in Phoenix with your car, I could answer that question in less than an hour. I don't want to downplay your issue in the least, but it's really not rocket science: Either your car's HSD system CAN perform properly and there is nothing wrong with the car, or it cannot perform properly and there IS something wrong with the car. Some further interrogation: What kind of display system do you have - the digital system in the middle stereo area, or just the basic one that comes with the normal display cluster? Do you notice the car moving into electric mode (called E-Mode ) when it is warmed up, and the battery charge is good, and speeds are below 42 miles per hour? Are most or all of your daily trips very short, and/or on dirt or gravel roads or in very hilly areas? Do you have the original OEM tires on the car, inflated to at least 32 PSI each? Have you learned the "feathering" trick to force the car into E-Mode? Does the gas engine shut off at red lights? If you are running the heater all the time, and your trips are short and in cold weather, you will definitely see lower MPG because of those factors. |
|
|
dear larsb and cdn tch, thanks for replies, i know you are busy. will post again later. larsb, many of your questions are already answered in previous post #825, #826. i learned a lot from both cnd tch and larsb earlier posts B.M.  (Before Me). larsb - you have a killer sense of humor, and cnd tch - you are very nice (must be canadien? in answer to unanswered questions, have MFD that comes with car. don't drive on gravel... yes weather (snow) plays factor. but as i said in previous post problem has existed since purchase in june 08. also just had car checked by dealer including psi. already agreed with "hypermiler" idea in concept - but where does a single mom with few connections find such a person? i suggested toyota take claim seriously and play "hypermiler". also agree and see the merit of you both patiently repeating some of the most obvious aspects which affect performance because MPG questions come up repeatedly and people can't search through all posts. perhaps one of your questions will turn up user error  meanwhile, i'm just glad i'm not receiving the amazingly hostile comments the two honda hybrid guys are getting. people overwhelmingly conclude the drivers are at fault and call them complete idiots based ONLY on the fact that they managed to get EPA estimates. neither of you two have "downplayed my issue", however this forum certainly does... but larsb please explain why the "burden of proof" as to whether my car's HSD system CAN perform properly and there is nothing wrong with the car, or it cannot perform properly and there IS something wrong with the car falls on the consumer of a very new MSRP car? am i just being naive? should i know the answer? is it buyer beware.... i sure expected better from Toyota. thanks to you both. i'm not giving up so easily, i will follow every suggestion in hope to either improve mileage or "prove" to Toyota the HSD is not working properly and THEY need to get involved. larsb, you've been here longer. do you know of ANY instance where Toyota has corrected a mileage issue with Hybrid Vehicle? (also asked in previous post) where's my "hypermiler"? any volunteers? my son just said "that's a horribly LONG post"! YES IT IS! Because i feel horribly upset and horribly helpless.
|
|
|
I purchased my TCH in early November and have put on almost 6K miles to date. In New England we have had our share of snow and consistently cold weather. My average city/highway is about 60/40. I have been averaging about 36 mpg according to the car computer. This past weekend there was a bit of a warming up into the 40's. On a highway trip back from New Jersey I averaged 41 mpg. Ergo, warmth, flat highways and driving steadily at the speed limit produces much improved mileage. We have experienced colder weather this week and my tank average is down to 36.5. Hybrids are like humans, we don't enjoy the cold. |
|
|
many posts to read, totally agree about weather.. my real world numbers have been consistently 26/28 tank ave since june 08. sometimes reaching 31 MPG. would be thrilled with you numbers, simply satisfied with EPA |
|
You are here:
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Camry Hybrid Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
