Last post on Dec 18, 2012 at 8:32 PM
You are in the Toyota Highlander Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
#254 of 447 Re: 06 HiHy engine control [damoose]
Jan 07, 2007 (11:12 am)
Please do let us know what the dealer says, it will be nice to know if Toyota did tweak their software for the 2006 version of HH.
We were all asking here in 2005 why it has to burn for 30 seconds upon start-up and not burn only when we need the ICE. May be Toyota has heard enough complaints from "early adpaters" that it changed the software and now runs the engine only when it needs to use the ICE.
Is that silly 30-sec burn normal for all hybrids? I do not know. It certinaly is normal for the 2005 HH. This burn caused a lot of angst at least for many posters here. A few of the owners who post here even ordered engine block warmers from Canada for their U.S. HH. We never did hear back from them if that reduced the 30-sec burn period.
Further back up this thread, there were many discussions of using Prius' P&G techniques and various ways of squeezing out that extra mile from the HH. These discussions span mid-2005 through mid-2006. At least for the few of us guinea-pigs who own the 2005 HH and early 2006 versions, we found that P&G and being real gentle with our HH did little to improve our MPG. We had to adapt such techniques to the HH's design which favors performance.
We now average 26.5 in cold weather and 28 warm weather with speed-limit driving. If I really drive it carefully and slow down some, I can squeeze out 27/29 cold/Warm respectively. Cold is anything between 32 and 50 inclusive and warm is everything 51 and up. We are in northern CA so it rarely gets below 32.
Looking forward to reading what you find out...
#255 of 447 Re: 06 HiHy engine control [damoose]
Jan 09, 2007 (12:09 pm)
"For the engine to start and run for 'thirty seconds' every time you start the vehicle 'cold'...
IS NOT NORMAL FOR A HYBRID.
This happens in summer and winter, hot and cold, regardless of how charged the battery may be. The aggressive running of the ICE system in the first 5-20 minutes of driving is also...
NOT NORMAL FOR A HYBRID "
For whatever reason, Toyota did not put the "thermos" system used in the Prius into the HH. This system keeps the coolant warm after the engine is turned off. The HH has to warm up the engine and catalytic converter, hence it has to run the ICE. I don't know why they designed the HH this way, but they must have had a reason.
#256 of 447 30-second burn
Jan 20, 2007 (5:45 pm)
Does anyone kow if the "30-second burn" applies also to the 2007 HH?
We don't own one yet, but are "in negotiations" with a dealer to buy one; probably within the next week, if we are lucky.
I don't see any mention about mileage for the 07 model.
#257 of 447 Re: 30-second burn [tlcox]
Jan 21, 2007 (6:56 am)
My 07 usually does a short burn from a cold start even in our mild Florida weather. I haven't had it long enough to know what it will do in summer temps. I just start right out driving, figuring to put it to use. I'm getting around 30 for normal driving. As high as 40 for P&G. See my earlier post. Tom
#258 of 447 Re: 30-second burn [tlcox]
Jan 21, 2007 (10:23 am)
Hi, the 2007 model does the same as the 2006. It is not a big deal in normal usage. On our HH, the 30-sec burn will eat about 0.1-0.2 MPG according to the on-board computer report. We easily make that up in normal driving.
#259 of 447 Reduced tax credit only dampens low MPG for HH
Jan 23, 2007 (7:56 pm)
Now that you purchased your HH during 2006, now is the time your expecting to utilize the $2,600 tax credit you were promised to help offset your cost. More than likely, you are in for a surprise!
We purchased our HH in June 2006. After 7300 miles, we a averaging less than 23 MPG (mostly city driving), much lower than what we expected. To make matters worse, we did a preliminary estimate of our taxes to see how our credit would be accounted for. To our surprise, the IRS has recently disclosed in the last month that many HH purchasers will only see a fraction of their $2,600 credit (assuming you purchased before 10/1/06) due to the limitations imposed by the alternative minimum tax. In our case, a $2,600 credit is looking more like $600!
Doing some further review, I suspect most HH owners may be in a similar tax position we are in. If that's the case, your HH just cost you $2,000 more than you expected. Add this cost to the lower MPG we were expecting, our HH purchase is not looking very attractive.
Hope your situation is better! Good luck!
#260 of 447 Re: Reduced tax credit only dampens low MPG for HH [rhg1750103]
Jan 23, 2007 (8:23 pm)
I suggest giving it a little time for the MPG to improve. It depends on terrain, how it is driven and the distance and temperature, tire pressure and other factors.
Many owners have posted their tricks and experience in this forum and the postings date back to August 2005. They are worth reading if you have a couple of hours .
GOod luck with your MPG.
#261 of 447 Re: Reduced tax credit only dampens low MPG for HH [rhg1750103]
Jan 24, 2007 (11:56 am)
"To our surprise, the IRS has recently disclosed in the last month that many HH purchasers will only see a fraction of their $2,600 credit (assuming you purchased before 10/1/06) due to the limitations imposed by the alternative minimum tax."
The IRS may be late in disclosing it, but it was always listed on this Forum: "Subject to AMT limitations" and "Check with your tax advisor".
That whole AMT thing really needs to be fixed by congress, but unfortunately Congress never seems want to reduce it's income - and making the AMT fair would do just that.
#262 of 447 Re: What are you really getting? [pf_flyer]
Feb 04, 2007 (5:49 am)
I'm on my first tank of gas and have thus far gotten only 20mpg average. I love this car, but does anyone know if this is a typical pattern for new Hybrid drivers, or is it because it's only 20 degrees here? I've only driven it in suburban locations so it's all low-speed driving, and I'm trying to be vigilant about slower acceleration and braking etc. I love this car but have a pit in my stomach that I'm not going to get nearly the mileage I'd hoped...
#263 of 447 Re: What are you really getting? [skidney]
Feb 04, 2007 (10:18 am)
This sounds normal, exactly what we got for the first 2000+ miles. Then it got a tiny bit better to 22-23 until we hit the first oil-change at 5000 miles. It then shot up to 24-25 on occasion. We are 24K+ miles now and averaging about 25 mpg so far this winter. Last winter, we could do no better than about 22+ and it is colder this time. In the summer, we get close to 28. This is normal posted speed driving on our fairly flat terrain. We do have highway overpasses and driveway up to our place to climb but the downhill stretch even things out.
I never believed in car "breaking in" past the first 1000 miles, now I am a grudging believer as this car seems to break in over many 1000's of miles.
How much hot air you use when cold, the tire pressure, steepness of streets, duration of your trip and breaking-in process all play a role in determining your mpg.
Also, babying the car by running on electric too often actually ends up running the ICE too often to charge the battery longer. There is a fine balance of how much ICE to use and how much electric to use. A general rule of thumb is to accelerate briskly (not flooring it) to desired speed and then maintain it by CRUISE. The car computer is generally good at figuring out what to do. At low speed city driving, when possible, keep the power meter needle close to the zebra zone after you reach desired street speed. That minimizes power use.
Unlike Prius, this car is not designed only for fuel efficiency, it is for a blend of performance and fuel efficiency so we sort of have to learn how to find the sweet spots.
Your concern was shared by many of us starting way back in August 2005. If you have a couple of hours to read previous posts, there are many tricks and good advice from many owners dating back to 2005. I have learned a ton from them. Enjoy the reading!
ps. THose posts are on another board here in Edmund titled "Highlander Hybird Driving Tips and Tricks".