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Toyota Camry, Sedan
#5592 of 5646 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep
Mar 23, 2012 (8:47 pm)
Need help from the experts on my 2007 Camry LE V4 - 64K miles
Went in for oil change to the Toyota dealer today and the service guy said that the water pump needs replaced. Per the service notes "Engine coolant seep" failed pressure test. The dealer quoted $560 for parts and labor (Southern California, Orange County).
There is no leak on my garage floor and I could not find any leak around the engine. A lot of folks mentioned that they notice pink stuff when the water pump leaks.
The car runs very smooth and I never had any issues with overheating and never noticed any leaks.
How would I make sure that the dealer is really honest and in fact there is a real issue with the water pump ? (Dealer wanted $290 to change the indicator bulb, last month. Took it to a local mechanic and he replaced the indicator bulb for free, just paid $8 for the bulb.)
Can the water pump be replaced by an outside mechanic, and how much would it cost if it's done by a local mechanic - can they test and confirm if there is indeed an issue with the water pump?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
#5593 of 5646 Re: 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep [sdizdabest]
Mar 25, 2012 (11:29 am)
It could be possible that there is a cooling system issue with your 2007 Camry because my family owns a 2007 Camry and we are a Consumer Reports subscriber--back in 2006 we were reluctant to buy the first year of a new model redesign but we had no choice because our Chevy was basically dying (at less than 100k miles!) and we already had a Honda Accord so we decided to "gamble" and go with the '07 Camry. Anyways, we noticed recently that Consumer Reports shows that the 07 Camry overall is reliable (full red and half red marks for reliability--except for "Engine Cooling"--where it shows "half black"), so it got me worried--fortunately, if what you described is the extent of the "Engine Cooling" problem, then we can handle that (~$560). However, it wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion, I've been burned three times by my local very well known Honda dealership, see this post here: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efdf924/5611#MSG5611
#5594 of 5646 Re: 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep [sdizdabest]
Mar 25, 2012 (12:08 pm)
I would be suspicious if there is no seepage visible around the pump. A pressure test failure could be faked if they interpreted a slight loss of pressure in 5 minutes to indicate a leak. This is nonsense! Virtually all cooling system pressure tests will find some degree of leakage; but the only valid indication that service is required is when liquid is visibly forced out under normal pressure.
BTW, www.rockauto.com sells all major brand new water pumps for this vehicle for between $21.79 and $61.79 plus a modest shipping charge.
You can calculate a shop's labor charge for replacing the water pump by phoning one or more local shops and asking them what the flat rate time estimate is for replacing the water pump on this car. They should give you a figure in tenths of an hour (eg; 1.7 hours). Once you have that figure; which should be the same at all shops, find out what the hourly labor rate is at the shop you're considering, and multiply that figure by the time estimate. That should give you the labor charge. Bear in mind that some shops will either refuse to install a part you bought yourself; or will add an additional fee to do so. Shops make a profit by buying parts at wholesale and marking them up 40% to 100% when sold to customers. So you would be undercutting their profit by buying the parts yourself.
When describing your car's motor to mechanics and to stores; it will facilitate the communication if you understood the symbols used to indicate engine designs. Engines are most commonly made in 4, 6 and 8 cylinders; but there are 4 different block configurations which any engine can be made in. The "V" shaped engine block is the most common (although not universally used) in 6 and 8 cylinder motors; and those motors are called V-6 and V-8. But 4 cylinder motors like yours are rarely made in a "V" shaped block. Most 4 cylinder blocks, including yours, are made in an inline configuration; where all 4 cylinders are in a straight line. This engine type is called an L4.
Other block configurations include horizontally opposed (also called Boxer type); as used in some VW and Subaru engines. This configuration is assigned the prefix "H." There are also "W" design engine blocks; used in some exotic engines. But many people mistakenly believe that all engine designs have a "V" prefix. And that is confusing to mechanics and parts clerks.
#5595 of 5646 Re: 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep [sdizdabest]
Mar 25, 2012 (3:50 pm)
Very easy to see the water pump on this car - right under the alternator. You would see two things - pink or red crystals on the bottom of the pump, and on the bottom of the hood, on the black hood liner, you would see a white spots right above the spot where the serpentine belt is. This would be from the leak (it drops onto the belt then is thrown up onto the bottom of the hood).
This coolant does not puddle on the garage floor - it turns to a solid (crystals).
Yes, on the 2007 I4 Camry, this is a problem area. Toyota is now using a different pump on this due to the many problems. It is covered under the 5 year, 60k mile powertrain warranty. Most failed before that point.
Consumer Reports is again spot on. This is a common problem, and it shows on their chart as a 1/2 black spot.
#5596 of 5646 Re: 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep [mcdawgg]
Mar 25, 2012 (8:50 pm)
I am so happy to see the response to my question on this forum. I appreciate zaken1's detailed response on calculating the price to pay and the explanation of the V shaped engine. I always refer to the car as V4 and will stop doing that as it clearly shows that it's an I4.
Thanks a lot mcdawgg - I did follow your instructions and took a second look at the car and white stuff over the serpentine belt and some pink crystals as well.
So took it to the local dealer and had them run a pressure test and it failed. Then the service guy checked the water pump and he confirmed the leak and pointed the pink stuff.
The local mechanic wants $330 + tax for the water pump and labor and an additional $charge of 99 for coolant flush. The local mechanic said that coolant flush is required so that the old dirty coolant is removed from the radiator.
I called back the Toyota dealership and talked to the part guy - they sell the water pump kit that comes with a thermostat for $180 - this is original Toyota stuff. I will go back to the local mechanic and ask him to provide the details of the water pump and see if I can have him install the stuff, if I buy it from rockauto or some other local parts supplier.
This is the first major repair on this car not counting the 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of front brake pads and 3 sets of rear brake pads with a new rear brake rotor set that was installed 2 months ago. I am still happy with this car because it drives very smooth, absolutely no noise and feels like it is just off the showroom.
I will post my status back here tomorrow - and really appreciate all the help from the experts on this forum.
#5597 of 5646 Re: 2007 Camry LE V4 - Replace Water Pump - Engine Coolant Seep [sdizdabest]
Mar 26, 2012 (12:45 pm)
Thanks to zaken1 for the breakdown of the cost, I was able to shop around and get a better price. I got the water pump replaced this morning and here is what I paid:
-- labor for 1.8 hrs = $150
-- water pump = $85 + 7.75% tax
-- coolant = $25 + 7.75% tax
They applied an internet coupon for $20 - so that total was $260 including taxes. Thanks to the experts once again for all your help.
BTW - the mechanic who replaced the water pump mentioned that his 2008 Tundra's water pump broke, within the first year.
#5598 of 5646 Re: check engine light update code 2195 & 138 [chuck28]
Mar 30, 2012 (4:34 pm)
HI Zaken, here is the latest. Had wife take my car to my local mechanic. He tighten down 3 bolts on the manifold at 9 something torque and said bolts only turned about 10 degrees. He reset codes.
CHeck enginge light came back on while wife was driving about 6 hours later appox. 20 miles.
My mechanic siad he has not found leaks in manifold and he has been suggesting that I get new sensors from Toyota because he has had problems in the past with the aftermarket sensors and have found no problems when using Toyota sensors.
I would have to make an approx. $300 dollor investment in Toyota's sensors.
I always apeciate your advice and will wait to here from you.
Thanks again as always, chuck
#5599 of 5646 Re: check engine light update code 2195 & 138 [zaken1]
Mar 30, 2012 (6:12 pm)
Hi Zaken, wanted to also mention that I went to auto zone to have codes read and, only code P0138 came up not P2195 this time. Wondering if that means anything or can I anticipate P2195 ( fuel -ratio) to come back? Did the little bit of tightening of the manifold change things?
#5600 of 5646 Re: check engine light update code 2195 & 138 [chuck28]
Mar 30, 2012 (7:48 pm)
I don't know what to say about this. Didn't you use a Denso sensor? Denso is owned by Toyota; and I highly doubt that this sensor is any different from the one they sell in the "Toyota Genuine Parts" box. So how about this; explain to your mechanic that the prospect of a $300 investment would be potentially daunting; if it turned out to not correct the situation; but it would be worthwhile; if it worked. How certain is he that this will work; and will he back his claim with any guarantee of performance? If the two of you can agree to a mutually acceptable set of terms; then go for it. But if he will not stand behind his advice; then this is just a gamble. As the saying goes: "Talk's cheap." Are you a gambler?
#5601 of 5646 Re: check engine light update code 2195 & 138 [chuck28]
Mar 30, 2012 (7:54 pm)
If you originally changed both the font and rear sensor; this may mean that only the rear sensor is setting a code anymore. Either that; or the other code will appear later. I really can't say; but it would be nice if the front sensor doesn't throw codes anymore. That would also reduce the amount of your investment in a "gamble" to just the rear sensor.