Last post on Nov 09, 2013 at 5:09 AM
You are in the Toyota Camry
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Camry, Sedan
#4983 of 5646 Re: Uncontrollable acceleration with floor mat removed [imidazol97]
Jan 29, 2010 (8:46 pm)
To you and the other poster, I'm simply saying that without a thorough investigation, no one knows for sure why that car ended up in the water. An interrogation of the black box certainly would help. I did some crash investigation work for my employer back in the 90s, and I know from that experience that it's still not always easy to discern what really happened (this was before black boxes were widely used) -- sometimes an educated guess was the closest you'd get.
With regard to Mr. West, I have found his explanations confusing to say the least, and not just in regard to this sudden acceleration issue. I don't see how he would know so much more than the engineers with Toyota and CTS who are much closer to the issue.
As for the videos, very interesting to see the parts involved. I may have to remove the gas pedal from my 2004 Camry (not involved in either recall) to see if it's the same. His conclusions about the cause are still his opinions, though.
#4984 of 5646 Re: transmission flush necessary? [dlrev]
Jan 29, 2010 (8:59 pm)
A flush injects solvent into the transmission with a machine that purports to get ALL of the old fluid out. Then new transmission fluid replaces the solvent. I believe the car is running during the procedure, which means part of the time, only solvent is circulating within the transmission. Plus with a flush, the filter is NOT changed.
With the traditional drain and refill, you only get about half of the old fluid out. Still, if you repeat the procedure often enough, you eventually replace all of the original fluid.
When to change the fluid is a matter of heated debate. Certainly if the car is used in high-temperature, high-load conditions (such a towing a trailer), then frequent changes (say every 20,000 miles) are a must.
For normal use, the consensus is to change it at about 35,000 to 50,000 miles. I did it once so far at 38K miles for my '04 Camry (did not replace the filter though), which now has nearly 71K miles. Since I did it myself, I only had to pay for 4 quarts of fluid.
#4985 of 5646 Re: Uncontrollable acceleration with floor mat removed [210delray]
Jan 30, 2010 (4:35 am)
210 delray, never did I say I was “certain” about the real cause of that Avalon tragedy that killed four people.
I said, “ Four people were killed in run away Toyota with floor mat in the trunk.”
It was a statement of fact. No opinion of mine was expressed in that statement regarding the “real” cause of the Avalon tragedy. When you are so jumpy as to conclude that I was “certain” about the real cause of the tragedy, you are behaving like a guilt-laden cheater who retorted “ How are you so certain I am the father of that baby?” when his wife only told him “ John, it’s not good. The newspaper reports that the woman you admitted to have an affair with has become pregnant.”
As a matter of fact, the police can easily determine if the driver had tried to stop the run away Avalon by stepping hard on the brake or the driver had stepped hard on the gas all the way to cause the Avalon to hit a fence then plunge into the river. If there are signs of the brakes overheated, it certainly points to the case of a run away Avalon not caused by the gas pedal stuck on a floor mat.
No, I’m not certain about the real cause of the Avalon tragedy that killed four people but I’m certain that it wasn’t caused by the gas pedal stuck on the floor mat. I’m also certain that that malfunction of the drive by wire system in the Avalon can not be ruled out and certainly deserves to be looked into as a probable cause when there are numerous complaints relating to Vehicle Speed Control by owners of Camry and Avalon on the NHTSA site, some of whom mentioned that their floor mats had already be removed or sure the gas pedal was not stuck on the floor mat.
You just choose the year, make, model of the vehicle, then choose various components relating to Vehicle Speed Control one and then click on Get Summary to read the details of the complaints. To understand the scope of the problem, you should search a model over a number of years and do comparative search as well.
There are 156 complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control for 2007 Toyota Camry but only 11 complaints of same nature for 2007 Honda Accord.
There are 25 complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control for 2005 Toyota Avalon but only 8 complaints of same nature for 2005 Honda Civic.
Please note that only complaints are recorded. In the case of the 2008 Toyota Avalon with four people killed, it was not included in the complaints in the NHTSA site because the driver and the passengers were all dead. The dead driver could not make a complaint. Therefore the problem is in fact more serious than that reflected by the complaints filed by drivers who survived the accidents or malfunctions of unintended acceleration..
Bu reading the summaries of the complaints of those Toyota owners, it is really hard to understand how Toyota could have denied having the serious problem of unintended acceleration on their vehicles for so long. A Congress hearing regarding Toyota’s handling of complaints regarding unintended acceleration is overdue.
#4986 of 5646 Re: Uncontrollable acceleration with floor mat removed [nmt001]
Jan 30, 2010 (7:01 am)
"By reading the summaries of the complaints of those Toyota owners, it is really hard to understand how Toyota could have denied having the serious problem of unintended acceleration on their vehicles for so long. "
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed!!!
Toyota factory, customer service AND their dealerships have been in complete denial....with heads SO big about their reputation it's hard to imagine how they could get them shoved so far up their keesters!
I got the same "non-response" on the ECM reprogramming for months and months before finally having to PRINT OUT the TSB and take it, yelling, into the owner of the dealership's office. Only THEN did he finally ask that his service department pay any attention to my issue. (Up until then, the service department tried to tell me "all drive by wire cars respond that way.....your car is normal....that isn't even a TSB you're holding.......that's not even a Toyota document!")
I just wanna take all the recall clippings I can find and go throw them all over their showroom floor.
#4987 of 5646 Re: Uncontrollable acceleration with floor mat removed [notmybmw]
Jan 30, 2010 (1:49 pm)
Michael. I feel your frustration. I had a 2007 4 cyl Camry that had acceleration hesitation occasionally. That's even worse than having acceleration hesitation all the time because I could not predict if there would be acceleration hesitation the next time I went to a short freeway onramp. On the other hand, many 6cyl Camry owners complained about engine flare and unintended acceleration.
I didn't even bother to complain to the dealership because Toyota denied having vehicle speed control problems in early 2007 and there was no way I could assure the hesitation could be duplicated by the Toyota dealership. I lost lots of money trading it in. Even if they could duplicate it, I'm sure they would say it's normal in drive by wire. Of course that's not normal. I own a Nissan Sentra 2007 since then and found the speed control very reliable and responsive and I was surprised to find out that it also uses DBW to control the throttle (The only drawback is that the ride is kind of rough). So DBW can be made reliable but if a problem occurs, the cause can be much more difficult to identify than a cable connected throttle system.
How did the ECM reprogramming work out in your Toyota vehicle? If it has solved the problem, that means there are multiple causes for the vehicle speed control problems instead of just the gas pedal getting stuck on the floor mat as Toyota seems to telling the mass media.
The following is a complaint taken from the NHTSA site regarding unintended acceleration in a Toyota vehicle that has been positively demonstrated to a Toyota dealership as the result of a faulty drive by wire system instead of the gas peddle getting stuck on the floor mat.
Complaint number: 10300210
"I OWN A 2007 AVALON. IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS I HAVE EXPERIENCED 5 EVENTS WHERE THE CAR ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN PRIOR TO THE FINAL EVENTS LEADING UP TO THIS REPORT. SEVERAL TIMES I EXPERIENCED THE CAR ACCELERATING WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE GAS PEDAL AS I DROVE THROUGH TOWN.THE CAR WOULD GO BACK TO ITS CORRECT RPMS AFTER DRIVING A FEW MILES OR AFTER THE CAR WAS STOPPED AND PUT INTO PARK.AFTER EXPERIENCING THE SUDDEN ACCELERATION THE THIRD TIME I TOOK MY VEHICLE TO BE CHECKED AT MY LOCAL AUTO SHOP. THEY COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE VEHICLE. . AFTER 2 MORE INCIDENTS I BROUGHT MY CAR TO A TOYOTA DEALERSHIP TO BE CHECKED. AFTER KEEPING MY CAR FOR 2 DAYS THEY FOUND NO UNINTENDED ACCELERATION PROBLEMS AND CONFIRMED THAT THE FACTORY MATS WERE INSTALLED PROPERLY. ON 12/28/09 I WAS DRIVING TO WORK ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY. THE CAR BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE GAS PEDAL. AS I PUSHED ON THE BRAKE, THE CAR CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE. AT THAT TIME I WAS NOT ABLE TO STOP MY VEHICLE BY PRESSING HARD ON THE BRAKE. THE ONLY WAY I WAS ABLE TO SLOW THE CAR DOWN WAS TO PUT THE CAR INTO NEUTRAL. I TOOK THE NEXT EXIT WHICH WAS THE EXIT FOR THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP. I CALLED THE DEALERSHIP AND TOLD THE SERVICE MANAGER TO MEET ME OUTSIDE BECAUSE I WAS EXPERIENCING ACCELERATION PROBLEMS. I DROVE APPROXIMATELY 5 MILES BY ALTERNATING FROM NEUTRAL TO DRIVE AND PRESSING VERY FIRMLY ON THE BRAKES. AS I PULLED INTO THE FRONT OF THE DEALERSHIP I PUT THE CAR INTO NEUTRAL AND EXITED THE CAR. WITH THE BRAKES SMOKING FROM THE EXCESSIVE BRAKING AND THE CAR'S RPM'S RACING THE MNGER ENTERED MY CAR. HE CONFIRMED THAT THE MATS WERE PROPERLY IN PLACE AND CONFIRMED THE RPM'S WERE VERY HIGH. THEY CONTACTED A TOYOTA TECH TO LOOK AT MY CAR, AFTER 1 1/2 WEEKS WITH MY CAR THEY WERE TOLD BY TOYOTA TO REPLACE THE THROTTLE BODY AND ACCELERATOR ASSEMBLY INCLUDING BOTH SENSORS. I NO LONGER FEEL SAFE DRIVING THIS CAR AND I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT TOYOTA HAS FOUND THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS PROBLEM. *TR RECEIVED BILL INVOICE FROM CUSTOMER. UPDATED 01/26/10.*JB "
Toyota shouldn't play Russian roulette with the lives of its customers. They must find out the root cause of the unintended acceleration in it's DBW vehicles and fix them ASAP to keep its customers and other people on the road safe.
#4988 of 5646 Re: Uncontrollable acceleration with floor mat removed [210delray]
Jan 30, 2010 (4:41 pm)
Dallas police say" there was no sign of driver error or alcohol" in runaway Toyota Avalon in which four people were found dead and the floor mat found in the trunk.
Safety Research & Strategies expert says "We clearly think that Toyota has a larger problem on their hands that involve electronics with their vehicles."
ABC News found reports of almost 2000 accidents and as many as 16 deaths possibly connected to the run away Toyotas.
Toyota service manager witness unwanted acceleration not related to floor mat entrapment. Toyota blames problem on sticky gas pedal but custom insist the gas pedal was never stuck.
#4989 of 5646 Center console problem
Jan 30, 2010 (4:47 pm)
I have a 2007 Camry XLE. The push door at the rear of the console (closest to raised compartment) won't oppen all the way as something seems to have gotten jammed under it. How can I take off the door and get object out???