Last post on Dec 01, 2008 at 5:20 AM
You are in the Honda S2000
What is this discussion about?
Honda S2000, Car Leasing, Convertible
#240 of 270 Re: Lease 08 or buy leftover 07? [23109vc]
Jun 23, 2008 (9:31 am)
To be honest, once you are used to driving a new to you car you will not be looking at the tach anyway. If you are paying attention, every engine tells you by sound and feel when it needs to be shifted. Sure, not used to a 8.5k or 8k redline will have you shifting too soon unless you stare at the tach but once you get used to the car then you will never need to watch - just drive. Or at least that is the case for me.
The one car I owned which was hard to drive this way was an RX-8. The rotary was so SMOOOOOTH and pulled right up to and through redline that the factory added a pre-redline shift alert. Once you got close to redline it would beep to tell you that you were about about of RPMs. That came in very handy for driving without watching the tach.
One thing I really like now is a digital speedometer. I had a heads up display in my C5 'vette and it was so much nicer than the analog gauge. Then the S2000s I have own have all been digital readout as was the RX-8. I love it, I want to know I am going 58 and not "something between 55 and 60" and you can tell with a digital gauge at a glance. I put ScanGauge IIs in all the cars so they all have a digital (and correctable) speedometers.
I can share the desire for the boxster. Heck, I have wanted an NSX every since they launched and I have a nice scale model of one on my desk (along with some others) but I have given up on owning one. By the time the price drops to what I would pay they are all really old and / or really high mile. I had a friend that had a couple so I have been able to drive one, just not in the cards to own one. If you can get your dream car, then you should. Just get a good deal on a nice example so if your dream turns into a nightmare you can unload it without losing too much.
#241 of 270 Re: Lease 08 or buy leftover 07? [aramism]
Jun 23, 2008 (9:33 am)
The current rate and residual combination is a little better than what was in the prior deal, what makes now a nice time is the $1k dealer incentive on top of the lease. None of us knows what Honda will do after the current deals expire, could be better deals for leases or could be worse. For SALES it might be better but I am not sure a cheaper lease deal will be coming - but that is just a guess on my part.
#242 of 270 Re: Lease 08 or buy leftover 07? [dwynne]
Jun 23, 2008 (10:20 am)
Dennis, I believe you and I are kindres spirits! It isn't in my cards to own an NSX either but holy cow do I still love them, even if they are what, 14 years old? I could almost afford to timeshare one! I also have a scale model at my office! Mine is black but anyway, back to the point...
I've always loved the digital readout, the tach's bar graph I personally find helpful, especially in the beginning of ownership. There is no staring at the dash to obtain speed or RPMs, just a quick glance and then you can focus on the road again.
#243 of 270 Re: Lease 08 or buy leftover 07? [23109vc]
Jun 23, 2008 (4:22 pm)
Just to clarify my earlier comments about cost of ownership for five years: the $60K for the S2000 vs. $90K Boxster referred to TOTAL cost of ownership, i.e., depreciation, fuel, insurance, lease/ finance costs, repairs, etc. The figures are based on near-MSRP pricing, so it's an apples to apples comparison. To further illustrate, this breaks down to ~ 85 cents a mile for an S2000 and $1.28 a mile for a Boxster. Just for ducks, a Cayman S is $1.38 a mile, a BMW 135 is $1.00 a mile and Miata is 75 cents. I'm not sure how ultimately practical such knowledge is since buying this type of car is hardly in the same realm as buying for an appliance, but is does give a rough basis for comparison. Anyway, we're not talking about Enzos or other "ultimate" cars here. ("Ultimate" is a really big category, one which only the deceased -- George Carlin and Scott Kalitta, R.I.P., are qualified to address, if they but possess the will and wherewithall.)
For all my motorheadedness, I've a practical side that hates surprises -- I still remember the day in 1972 when I walked out of my flat in San Francisco to find my recently bought '67 Sunbeam Alpine stolen. This isn't entirely apropos to this discussion except as an illustration of the vagaries of owning a sports car. I was young and foolish, and frugal, I thought, so I didn't have it insured for collision or theft.
I'm trying to illustrate the importance of abiding dependability. Throughout the last ten years of leasing, buying, then selling a '99 M3, and owning and driving an unusually entertaining Subaru Forester XT MT, which my wife now drives, I never sold my '94 Integra GSR Sedan. I'm the original owner and it's got only 71,000 miles on it. It has been completely bullet-proof. It runs up through VTech to 8200 RPM without any indication of stress. This happens less often than when it and I were younger, yet it still stirs something vital. There's no question that the sound of a Porsche at full song is about as good as it gets for mere mortals, still, the thought of ever having to tear into one of those boxer motors at this stage of life and income is daunting. Just how does one beat a Honda or other Japanese car for reliability? I didn't want to hang on to the BMW long enough to find out.
BTW, I've driven a friend's massively-Compteched NSX -- he has more money than anyone needs -- and it is BIG "I" impressive, in a far more refined way than an original '67 427 Cobra I drove in '72 ... owned by the guy who sold me the Alpine. Absolutely silly-fast, especially on the tires of that era. It was British racing green, with high-rise manifold and racing oil cooler, and had 7500 miles on it. Pristine. I could have bought it for $7500 -- mind you, this is what a new 911 cost in those days, so, as with Porsches of today, was a little rich for my blood. Sorry ... got a little off track there. Maybe, I'd be safer in a Miata after all.
#244 of 270 Lease deals July / August??
Jul 12, 2008 (6:24 am)
the honda website does not show any sort of s2000 lease "special".
the local dealer said they thought the deal that had been running up to early July was no longer available.
so it the S2000 no longer a good lease deal? i held off on doing anythign thinking it would onlyh get better...but now it looks like they pulled the 1000 incentive and low MF?
oh well. i guess you snooze you lose. anyone know the current numbers on a 2008 s2000 lease?
fyi - i looked at leasing AND buying. my local dealer still has 2007 models on their lot!! they have a sign saying $6000 off MSRP on both the 07 AND the 08 models.
my guess is they may do even better on an s2000 purchase?!?! how cheap could i really get an s2k, especially if i bought an 07?
#245 of 270 Re: Lease deals July / August?? [23109vc]
Jul 12, 2008 (1:33 pm)
i'm in the same boat you are. want to pick up an 08 s2k lease in july or august but could not do it in june so i am hoping they have a good lease special in july or august. anyone with info would be appreciated. i think i should be able to get this car in the 300's with nothing out of pocket. i was looking into it a few years ago and was able to get into that ballpark. 34k it isn't that much of a stretch to get that car for that payment.
#246 of 270 Re: Lease deals July / August?? [23109vc]
Jul 12, 2008 (3:23 pm)
I've been kicking myself some for not going with the now expired lease program. With a lot of cash going out this month for home repairs and so-called retirement accounts sinking, I just couldn't pull the trigger. FWIW, my local dealer loaned me an 05 S from their used lot for several hours. It had 58K on the clock, and though there was evidence the car hadn't been driven lightly, it was still tight and strong. Later in the week drove a brand new Miata w/ power hardtop to satisfy my curiosity. It was nice, easier ingress/ egress, and more features. It was a GT with handling package, and just didn't feel as connected to the road. The S keeps poking at my brain. Despite an overall record month for Honda in June, there were only 273 S2000s sold across the US -- the worst June ever for the car. It sure would seem there might be more incentives coming, though maybe Honda can afford to let a low volume model just peeter out as with the old NSX.
Jul 18, 2008 (2:20 pm)
what incentives if ANY are going on now for an S2000 lease OR purchase?
my local dealer has a leftover 07 that they are offering at $7000 OFF MSRP.
good deal or not? you obviously can't lease it, but could buy.
Jul 18, 2008 (3:09 pm)
Honda's offering low loan rates 0.9% for 36months and 2.9% beyond that, I believe. No such financing with a leftover 2007. Still, at ~ $27K, depreciation would be about a wash compared to an 08 at invoice, and cost basis is lower. With are no significant differences 07 vs 08, if the 07 is cosmetically new with minimal miles, seems it would be desirable -- especially if one intended to keep it for more than a few years. Some people prefer the more-than-5-spoke wheels on the 07. It's hard not to think, however, that Honda won't offer further incentives as the model year closes. Sales of the S have slowed to a crawl.
#249 of 270 Re: [23109vc]
Jul 19, 2008 (7:29 am)
I love how they say "$7k off MSRP" to make it sound like a huge savings. There is about $3,200 in difference between invoice and MSRP, so the price is really $3,800 under invoice. Many dealers will deal down into hold back to sell an S, so figure that the old car would be about $3,300 cheaper than a new 08 should be.
The Edmunds incentives page shows $1k in dealer cash on the 08 if you do AHFC financing and they show rates at 0.9% to 36 months and 2.9% for 60 months. So that should make the 08 now $2,300 more than the left over 07 and less the interest you would have to pay for the loan - higher (used car rate?) for the 07 VS the cheap promo rate.
Down the road, the 08 will always be worth more money than the 07 but the difference gets less as the years go by. I would run the numbers on the 08 with the $1k dealer money and cheap rate VS the 07 with whatever your best rate is and see how it stacks up. If I was not going to save a good bit of money on the 07 I would get an 08, I guess.
Note that for 08 they revised the gauges (no big deal) and they also retuned the suspension for more "high speed stability". My 08 is still new, but I am thinking so far that this change is a bad thing. I did test drive other 08s and mine before I did the deal, but not at 9/10 speed in corners. Now my favorite clover-leaf on ramps that used to be no problem at 40 (not even near the limit) seem to be a challenge for the new car. It is early days for my car though and the 05 I had was wearing 3 to 4 32" tread on the rear tires. So as I get the new car more broken in things may improve. If they don't, I may have to look to see what is involved in "un-retuning" the suspension. But that is just me, it might be no problem for others or be preferable. I have had 3 S2000s now and the 01 was way tail happy and the 05 much less so and the 08 is tuned for more understeer or the tires have less grip (right now) or both.