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Honda Fit vs Honda Civic

237 messages,  Last post on Oct 29, 2008 at 2:15 PM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Hatchback, Sedan

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#148 of 237 Re: bobw3 [kipk] Yaris tachometer ? [midnightcowboy] [bodble2] [bamacar] [midnightcowboy] [bodble2] [bamacar] [bodble2] by bamacar Oct 04, 2006 (3:50 pm)
Replying to: bodble2 (Oct 04, 2006 2:33 pm) Nobody doubted your Canadian info. As I said IN THE US , they don't have a tach on any liftback and do on all manual sedans, and that is where the question originated from not north of the border.   Anyway, once again this choice by Toyota makes no sense. At least on the Fit and Civic, the tach is not an issue.
#149 of 237 Re: GM just doesn't care anymore. [midnightcowboy] by kipk Oct 05, 2006 (5:45 am)
Replying to: midnightcowboy (Oct 04, 2006 7:48 am) Aren't those unions great! First they corrected the deplorable working conditions which was good, then they got greedy killing the golden goose which was bad...   Gotta agree!! High wages and bennefits are part of the problem with U.S. car MFG.. Add to that, top heavy management, and the formula for failure is there.   On the other hand my youngest son has been with Yamaha for about 10 years. Started on the assembly line, and now he has a long title and much responsibility. His hourly wage is not even close to that of an equal job with the Big 3.   To be competitive, there has to be a cost point. If too much is paid out in salaries, quality of parts and materials must take up the slack.   The Big 3 can't seem to cope any longer, yet foreign auto makers, build plants here and thrive.   Kip
#150 of 237 ... by plekto Oct 05, 2006 (7:08 am)
Cars are commodities these days. He's no different than someone working in an appliance or TV assembly line, to be honest.   He probably needs to move to a different job that still utilizes hand-built techniques and knowhow. Replies to this message: kipk (Oct 07, 2006 5:04 am) jacksan1 (Oct 07, 2006 5:33 am)
#151 of 237 Re: test drove Fit and Civic back to back [bsmithcreek] by bobw3 Oct 06, 2006 (8:44 am)
Replying to: bsmithcreek (Oct 03, 2006 3:09 pm) There are a bunch of 6'5" folks in the other Fit forums that fit just fine.
#152 of 237 LOL by bottgers Oct 06, 2006 (2:58 pm)
The Civic IS a luxury car compared to the Fit.
#153 of 237 Re: ... [plekto] by kipk Oct 07, 2006 (5:04 am)
Replying to: plekto (Oct 05, 2006 7:08 am) I think he has become a fixture at Yamaha!   My point is that they pay according to what the job is worth to them.   The big 3 pay according to what the union has managed to bully them into. (Also excessive management tiers) Their labor cost is much higher than the Asian counterparts. To have compedetive MSRPs the big 3 have to reduce cost somewhere. This leaves the areas of parts and materials. Their cars give more trouble. Customers go away! Plants close from lack of sales. That WELL PAID worker is now out of a job. He looks for another job with his skill level. Assembly line! Those that are hiring don't pay what he is used to receiving.   Union mentality is good in some areas like working conditions and such, but they need to realize that they can and are pricing themselves right out of the job market.   Kip Replies to this message: jacksan1 (Oct 07, 2006 5:33 am)
#154 of 237 Re: ... [kipk] by jacksan1 Oct 07, 2006 (5:33 am)
Replying to: kipk (Oct 07, 2006 5:04 am) I used to work for a Japanese automotive company (which shall remain unnamed here), and we were all members of the Japan Automobile Workers. In Japan, too, unions like the JAW (aptly named) do leverage their positions and negotiate and often win higher benefits and wages.   The difference with the Big 3's situation is that, while we the union members were willing to fight hard for what we felt we deserved, we were also willing to help out the management to the best of our abilities. Everyone knew that sabotaging the company would not do anyone any good.   Of course, it did help that none of the executives, from the CEO down, earned 500 times the wages that the rank and file was earning, as with American executives.
#155 of 237 Exactly by plekto Oct 07, 2006 (12:29 pm)
The workers in Japan don't get greedy. Also, they are guaranteed employment as long as they want - of course, while they do a good job that is. So the need for unions to protect the workers from losing their jobs isn't something they do. If you are a slacker, the union itself will kick you out.   Also, the unions don't turn into de-facto PACs. In the U.S., unions aren't unions anymore but corporate entities of themselves. If membership in the union isn't optional for the workers and they make decisions without your input(other than whether to strike or not), it fails the basic litmus test of being a union.   Lastly, salaries in Japan for the managers and owners are usually 5-20x the average person's salary. Not too far out of line.   So GM - of course it can't survive. The unions got greedy and killed the goose. Maybe they get a yellow painted piece of tin instead of a golden egg. Their own fault. Replies to this message: jacksan1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:19 am)
#156 of 237 Re: Exactly [plekto] by jacksan1 Oct 09, 2006 (10:19 am)
Replying to: plekto (Oct 07, 2006 12:29 pm) Also, they are guaranteed employment as long as they want - of course, while they do a good job that is. So the need for unions to protect the workers from losing their jobs isn't something they do.   This was the case up until early 1990s. However, the days of lifetime employment are long gone in Japan. No one, except for civil servants, has such guarantee any more.
#157 of 237 Unions, foreign vs. domestic, etc. by reuel3 Oct 09, 2006 (4:40 pm)
While I appreciate this topic, we should probably return to posts more focused on the Honda Fit vs. Honda Civic.   Thanks for the cooperation!

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