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Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Accent, Car Comparisons, Hatchback
#248 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [germancarfan1]
Dec 16, 2006 (6:06 pm)
First, I mentioned in the post you replied to that I sold my Elantra in a private-party sale. Second, Edmunds.com's current TMV for a a private-party sale for that car, but 9 months after I sold it, is $5173. It was right around $5900 when I sold it. $700 depreciation in 9 months is not too bad IMO. And I don't think the buyer got "ripped off"; she was very pleased with the price and loves the car. Third, the TMV for trade-in is $3964, not $2957. Which is why I don't tend to trade cars in--you really get ripped off, whether it's a Hyundai or a Toyota.
But back to the Yaris vs. Accent. Do you know the projected resale values for the 2007 Accent and Yaris, as a percentage of MSRP, from an expert source? For instance, the value after 5 or 6 years? I can't find that info. If we knew, we could do a fact-based comparison instead of talking about the resale prices of a single used Sonata or Elantra.
#249 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [germancarfan1]
Dec 16, 2006 (6:13 pm)
Your example, a worst-case scenario because first-year depreciation is very high, demonstrates how an Accent can wind up costing less in depreciation than a Yaris. Consider that during most of 2006, the Accent had a $1000 general rebate. Deduct that from the purchase price of the Accent, and now the Accent cost you less out of pocket in first year depreciation than the Corolla. Plus you would have enjoyed some features the Corolla CE doesn't have standard, such as ABS, side airbags and curtains, 8-way adjustable driver's seat, 6-speaker stereo, and rear armrest. It's not just about the destination (resale value)... it's about the journey.
#250 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [backy]
Dec 16, 2006 (7:15 pm)
Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but they are wrong. According to Edmunds, a 2001 Elantra GLS 5-speed with 45K miles w/ cruise, keyless, and alarm sells at PRIVATE for $4723. Even a 2002 model with the same features and mileage sells at private for $5500. You charged your sister practically dealer retail price...nice guy.
The point of my original post was that dealers give disproportionaly low trade-in values for Hyundais period. Most dealers will not even give the Edmunds trade-in value (evidenced by my neighbor's offer of more than 1K under edmunds' already low value) because, frankly, nobody wants a Hyundai that has no warranty. Ask your dealer, you'll get the same response. Unfortunately, most people must resort to trading in their vehicle at the dealer. Not everyone is as fortunate as you to have a unknowledgable sister you can rip off.
The Accent has poor resale. Edmunds, ALG and my own figures point this out. There is nothing to debate. The Accent might have positive attributes, but resale certainly isn't one of them.
#251 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [backy]
Dec 16, 2006 (7:34 pm)
Math must not be your forte. Even assuming someone purchased a 2006 Accent for $11443 (including a 1K rebate), it STILL depreciated roughly 19% (9303/11443). The Corolla depreciated 15%.
How about a "better" case senario.
2002 Accent versus 2002 Toyota Echo (both roughly same original TMV)
Accent trade-in value: $3000
Echo trade-in value: $5776
Which would you rather trade-in? (I pray I wouldn't own either but that's neither here nor there)
#253 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [germancarfan1]
Dec 16, 2006 (9:20 pm)
I don't think you are using the right figures for calculating the TMV. Use these:
2001 Elantra GLS
check options: cruise, keyless entry
See what you get. Due to variations around the country, your zip code will probably return a different answer than mine, but it should be close to $5,173 for private-party sale.
At the time I sold the car, 9 months ago, the TMV was around $5900. Yes, my sister, who is a very sharp businesswoman and tough negotiator, thinks I am a very nice guy for selling her a great car at a fair price. If she didn't want it, I had another offer for $50 more, but I sold it to her because she needed a good car.
Now can you knock off the personal attacks and stay on topic, for once??
#254 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [germancarfan1]
Dec 16, 2006 (9:53 pm)
Actually, math IS my forte--I was a math major in college and a math teacher. I would say my math skills are better than your reading skills. Please go back and read my post again. I was talking about DOLLARS OUT OF POCKET, not percentages that you and I can't spend. Here's the math. Since you seemed to have trouble with the resale numbers on the Elantra, I ran the numbers myself:
2006 Corolla CE MT, new TMV including $500 rebate: $13,458
Trade-in TMV: $10,783
2006 Accent GLS MT, new TMV including $1000 rebate, $11,562
Trade-in TMV: $9,322
So the Corolla costs $435 more out of pocket in depreciation after one year than the Accent.
As for the ECHO vs. Accent, that is a little more on topic. But you are mistaken as to the original sale prices. I know that back in 2002, Accents were selling for well under $10,000 with discounts and rebates. The list price on the top-of-the-line GL 4-door with A/C, CD stereo, height-adjustable front seat, tachometer, 60/40 rear seat, power steering/brakes, and power windows/locks/mirrors was only $11,049. What was the list price on an ECHO equipped like that, and what kind of discounts and rebates were available? I'll bet the difference in real-world sales prices was at least $2776. That's the main reason the resale value of the Accent is a lot lower than the ECHO's!
#255 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [backy]
Dec 16, 2006 (10:00 pm)
I provided generalized empirical evidence of the Accent's lackluster resale value while you provided anecdotal evidence of how you conned a family member into buying an overpriced Hyundai to rebut a widly recognized position that Hyundai suffers from poor resale value.
Who is off topic?
#256 of 443 Re: Why KBB,Edmonds, NADA, Black Book??? [backy]
Dec 16, 2006 (10:16 pm)
I have a MA in economics and working on my JD as we speak so I trump you
The reason why resale values are calculated in percentages and not by actual dollars lost is to account for percentage losses in individual's purchasing power. Thus, it is far more detrimental to an owner of a $10K car which loses 25% of its value yet only accounts for $2500 in actual loss than the owner of a $50K car which might lose $5K in depreciation, but only account for 10% of the car's value. That loss of $2500 to the owner of the cheaper car is far worse than the loss of $5000 to the owner of the more expensive automobile. Thus the reason why the 2006 Accent placed #2 on Edmunds Top 10 Worst Resale Values and the Corolla (nor any Toyota model) was no where to be found.
BTW, the 2002 ECHO with A/C had a MSRP of $11,685. The main reason the Accent has a lower resale value is because the Accent was rubbish. Resale value measures the value subsequent owners place on the car. Obviously, not many subsequent owners place much value on a poorly constructed Hyundai with zero remaining warranty. Again, don't take my word for it...numerous sources have already stated the painfully obvious...the Accent has poor resale value. There is no reason to debate the undebatable.
#257 of 443 Re: A quote for you... [joe97]
Dec 17, 2006 (12:48 am)
If you would refer back, I never posted anything about Accents having anywhere close to a high-powered motor - that was all you, with the supposedly superior VVT-i in the Yaris. Mentioning anything related to the word performance in the subcompact class is, well, preposterous I did mention, however, the Accent with better handling, specifically the SE 3 door version, something I came away with after test driving the Yaris and Accent back-to-back.
By the way, just in case you haven't figured out yet, that "challenge" I posted was rhetorical.
Actually, Hyundai already has a far superior 1600cc engine called "Gamma." The new engine makes 121 hp and is more fuel efficient than the "Alpha" engine.