Last post on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:51 AM
You are in the Hatchbacks - Archived Discussions
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hatchbacks Host for directions! discussion.
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Accent, Car Comparisons, Hatchback
#22 of 443 Re: Pros and cons [tjw1308]
Oct 01, 2006 (4:52 pm)
I accept that you define predicted reliability as you stated. I think that it's more reasonable though to measure predicted reliability based on the actual car. So if a car is totally redesigned, as the Accent and Yaris hatches were for 2007, I think that has to be taken into account. Which is what CR does when it reports on predicted reliability for cars. Note that in their 2006 Annual Auto issue, they state for their predicted reliability for the Accent and Yaris simply "New".
The problem with using the reliability of old designs as a predictor of reliability of new designs is that is doesn't take into account the quality improvements--or slides in quality for that matter--in the new designs. Hyundai is trending up. Toyota has been strong for many years in reliability, but recently their executives and the press have voiced concerns over an increasing number of quality problems in Toyota's new models. Will the Accent continue Hyundai's upward trend in reliability? Will the Yaris continue Toyota's tradition for reliability? I think it's too early to say for sure. If I had to go only on the reliability of the old models, the Accent's record per CR and other sources is acceptable to me. I know that may not be the case with everyone.
You are correct that the $500 difference in my example would be made up in gas savings, assuming 10k miles a year or more over five years and $3.00 a gallon gas. If someone drives less than that, as I do, the amount is not made up--although gas prices could go above $3.00. But I have to consider that over those five years, I would be driving a car in the Accent SE that has a lot more of what I look for in a car. It would be worth it to me to pay more than for the Yaris. I realize many will disagree with me on that. For example, if having seven cup holders is a "blocker" requirement for you, then that drops the Accent hatch out of any consideration whatsoever.
#23 of 443 Re: Pros and cons [backy]
Oct 01, 2006 (4:55 pm)
Actually, believe it or not, I pretty much agree 100%.
#24 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [vermonter16]
Oct 03, 2006 (12:30 pm)
I couldn't resist commenting... I test drove an automatic yaris liftback in August in NH and fell in love immediately. I'm waiting for a stick shift with power package and praying I get it. I know it was years ago but a friend bought a Hyundai and it was a piece of crap.. I just couldn't consider one, I'll stick with Toyota's or Honda's.. both have been great buys in the past and sooooo reliable!
#25 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [ulthipster]
Oct 03, 2006 (12:35 pm)
Exactly why "predicted" reliability is so important... everything from perception to residuals are based on what people remember about old ones, not how nice the new ones "might" be.
Once bitten, twice shy
The Yaris OTOH, is the follow-up to a car that CR gave almost ENTIRELY full red (the best) circles accross the board.
And I swear, if someone brings up the Toyopet... lol... Anyone find me a COLOR photo of one yet? Or know any of the 3 people who owned one and are still alive??? j/k
#26 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [tjw1308]
Oct 03, 2006 (3:48 pm)
The first Toyota I owned, a Corolla, had three powertrain problems (two of which I had to pay for) and one electrical system problem (also which I had to pay for) in its first 3 years. Plus the trunk leaked during hard rains, or going through an automatic car wash. Guess I would never want to buy another Toyota! Oh wait... I did buy two others. They were very reliable. Also much more refined than my first Corolla. They were very good cars (another Corolla, and a Celica). I'm glad I gave Toyota a second chance.
#27 of 443 Re: Pros and cons [backy]
Oct 03, 2006 (4:47 pm)
The big thing missed for ME is the "true cost od ownership". Check the price of a 60K service on both...
#28 of 443 Re: Pros and cons [lucynethel]
Oct 03, 2006 (4:59 pm)
Well, don't keep us in suspense--what are the 60k service costs for both cars?
#29 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [backy]
Oct 03, 2006 (6:47 pm)
"Guess I would never want to buy another Toyota!"
And if your problems were in fact in line with the majority of owners, I wouldn't blame you one bit if you didn't.
But we aren't talking about isolated cases here... we are talking about broad spectrums of ownership. Of which, overwhelmingly, have indicated Toyota to be a superior brand with regards to reliability.
If things are indeed changing, there isn't enough data to draw any real conclusions to that effect... YET. There may be, in a while, but for now I doubt anyone but a Hyundai owner would care to take up the argument that a Hyundai is as reliable as a Toyota.
Historically it isn't true, perception-wise it isn't true, and until data conclusively proves so IN THE FUTURE, there isn't much to say for the present either.
By all accounts, the Yaris is PREDICTED to be a more reliable car. I think history more than supports that opinion...
#30 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [tjw1308]
Oct 03, 2006 (7:05 pm)
But we aren't talking about isolated cases here...
Odd... you didn't say that a few posts back when someone mentioned a friend had trouble with a Hyundai years ago.
As for a Hyundai is as reliable as a Toyota: that has been my experience in owning three Toyotas and two Hyundais. Actually, considering my first Toyota, my Hyundais have been more reliable than Toyota overall. Don't you think people consider their personal experiences with a brand in deciding whether to buy that brand again? I think it's a pretty major consideration.
If things are indeed changing, there isn't enough data to draw any real conclusions to that effect... YET.
There is plenty of data to draw conclusions about the reliability of Hyundais improving over the past few years. All you need to do is check out the past few years' of CR's reliability surveys, or JD Power's annual reports on reliability to see the upward trend. Go take a look at the 2006 CR Annual Auto Issue. Hyundais used to be a joke because of their reliability. Take a look at how many brands have overall predicted reliability records better than Hyundai in that CR issue. Not too many.
Yes, Toyota is one of them. (Although the Yaris is too new to have a reliability record, at least according to the accounts of CR.) That point is not in dispute, although you keep bringing it up as if it were. If someone wants superior--not just acceptable, but superior--predicted reliability in a car above everything else, the Yaris (or maybe the Fit) is the logical choice. If other considerations are as important or more important, then it's not a slam-dunk for the Yaris.
#31 of 443 Re: 2007 Hyundai Hatch and 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift [backy]
Oct 03, 2006 (8:01 pm)
Hey now, let's not play the misquote game again... I never said HYUNDAI wasn't improving, now did I??? And I wasn't the one who said my friend had problems... Although I know a few that have (with Hyundais).
What I did say was that there was NO evidence that they have become as reliable as Toyota, so claiming that they've come a long way is still afar cry from being EVEN. They may be getting CLOSER, but they aren't there yet, and that is black and white.
Look, I get that you are very proud of your Hyundai, and truly, that's cool. Nothing wrong with going off of personal experiences either. It's obvious that by your own habits (driving less than 10k a year), the Hyundai may be a good choice for you. Most people will experience more problems than you simply because MOST people drive thousands more miles per year than you do. That would be true no matter what you drove.
The Yaris is a better choice with regards to gas-mileage, residual, and predicted reliability.