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Hatchbacks Honda Fit Honda Fit v. Hyundai Accent
239 messages, Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 9:47 AM
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Replying to: enka (Apr 22, 2006 8:59 am) I'm sure you already know, being a car afficianado that looks are purely subjective. However, I completely disagree with you on the comment that Honda engineers spent very little time on the car, and I am not just saying this because it has the little "H" symbol on both ends. The attention to detail in the interior is amazing. All the controls are located in logical locations and they feel of high quality. This car is one of the best examples of "utilization of space" I have every seen. The "Magic Seats" and their flexibility and ease of use are a testament to that. At least 10 people have already commented on how "logical" the car feels. That usually doesn't happen when a car is poorly thought out. ...and regarding the "no one looks at you" is another story. I have seen plenty of people turn their heads, make comments (haven't heard many negative ones yet) and come up to talk to me about the car. 1996 Civic dashboard? Tell me, Enka, have you actually seen the Fit or are you just talking? I would suggest you go take the car for a test drive or something because what you are saying most people do about Honda (mesmerized by the "H" logo) is exactly what you are doing about Hyundai. I really don't know much about Hyundai and I haven't seen the new Accent so I am refraining from making dumb comments about it. You should try the same.
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| Sat in the Fit today (Sport, Red, 5AT). VERY upscale interior for a $15k car. I came away very impressed with fluidity of switchgear, roominess, wonderful magic rear seats (makes the car in a class above, IMO) etc. I didn't have time to drive it, but it didn't matter because it was already sold! | |
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Replying to: hungarian83 (Apr 22, 2006 10:41 am) The Hyundai tries, but it feels very "90s" - adequate but cost-cut in a hundred little places. And it just doesn't wear well or handle kids or hauling stuff as well as other cars. Not for long-term use. A 5 year old Kia looks like a Ford - falling apart quickly on the interior if the owner has treated it even the least bit hard. It's exactly like comparing a Lexus to a Buick. The Buick tries, but it's just not a high-end Lexus in fit and finish, or how solid it feels. The Fit is a premium-level small car like the Mini is - so "features" aside, I and many people will pay for the better ride and durability. Plus, the 5-speed on it is inexcuseably poor. My 1975 Volvo 164E with its miserable Borg-Warner 5-speed felt ten times more solid. 30 years later, Hyundai is making *worse* manuals? It's even not as good as a VW Bug's gearbox. 3rd? 5th? Who knows what gear you are in? And you have to live with that gearbox every day. It's not like a poor rear defroster. The thing about the warranty is - Hyundai cuts the warranty in *half* for anoyoen other than the original purchaser. Then subtracts the time used so far. So a one year old Hyundai is 10/2=5-1 year old = 4 years left on the warranty, and half as well on the non-powertrain warranty. A 3 year old Hyundai is essentially a timebomb. 2 years left on the drivetrain, 6 months on the rust, and nothing else. tick...tick..tick... It's the ONLY manufacturer that pulls this "trick", so it's clear that they only do the 10 year "warranty" for marketing purposes. They have no intention of supporting their cars(many are sold to fleets lately) any better than the other manufacturers. The lack of a proper factory certification program from KIA confirms it. Hyundai is: "A warranty of 6 years/75,000 miles from in-service date" That's drivetrain only, and not one thing else. Three years old - means you get 3 years and the remainder of 75K miles on the transmission and engine. It's "transferrable", but who's going to buy a 4-5 year old "certified" Hyundai with 1 year and 10K miles left on it? With a used certified Honda, it could be plainly out of warranty, and yet you get: "Warranty terms are 12 months/12,000 miles Certified Limited Warranty and 7-year/100,000 mile Powertrain Limited Warranty" That's not bad - a one year old Fit - suddenly has a 12/12K extension on the comprehensive warranty and a 7/100K limit on the drivetrain. Much better than the original, actually. Hyundai is um - barely adequate. KIA? You wish. And every person that I have known who owned one - they used that warranty every other month. And the dealers tried hard to keep from claiming anything that wasn't cracked-in-half obvious as a legitimate repair. Why shouldn't they? They're getting flooded with minor fixes and getting nothing back. Sure, it's free - but it's also a pain to waste the time constantly going in for problems and dealing with the repair department. It's like the old VW Bugs - you could fix them yourself, but darn it - you were doing it every other weekend. At some point, you just wanted your life back, no matter now "economical" the car was. |
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 22, 2006 9:18 am) I totally disagree with you here. My sister's 5 year old Hyundai Elantra's interior/electronics is definitely not falling apart and feels more like a 1-2 year old car. And she has 2 booster seats and 1 car seat in the back so definitely a lot of kid activity there. I just noticed yesterday that the HVAC control on the Elantra is simple but not cheap feeling and the air direction switch valve is electronic and not manual. The paint job still shines and feels smooth after 5 years. The car had a small fender bender when it was 1 year old but never got repaired and the part where the paint is peeled, rust has never developed beyond the peeled part (where its actually just a bit rust colored) even after 4 years of being exposed. Since this is a Honda Fit discussion, the only reason I bring up Hyundai is so Honda can pick up a few from Hyundai in terms of providing standard equipment for their entry level cars. Yeah, for this Fit offering, Honda is missing a few accessories that should be standard.
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 22, 2006 9:18 am) * It is clear you have not examined the switchgear of a modern Hyundai, i.e. anything post-2000. You will find if you set your biases aside (as 3rd party reviewers have) that the switchgear on Hyundais is comparable to or better than that of the Japanese makes. An example is the smooth, fluid HVAC knobs and electronic buttons on the six-year-old Elantra, compared to the clunky mechanical knobs and sliders on the five-year-old Fit. Or the cruise controls used on several Hyundai models that are the exact same controls used on Toyota and Lexus models. Have you disassembled the Hyundai and Honda switches to compare assembly quality, or have you run them through durability tests? I have run Hyundai switches through real-life durability tests over 5-1/2 years, and they have held up great in daily family use. But what really mystifies me is your attack on Hyundai's warranty. If anything, you should be complaining about Honda's warranty--a paltry 3 years, 36k miles bumper-to-bumper and 5 years, 60k miles on the powertrain. With this kind of warranty, it is clear Honda has no intention of supporting their cars. So if you buy a three-year-old Fit or one with more than 36k miles on it, how many years of bumper-to-bumper warranty do you have left? Zero. If you want roadside assistance, how much would you need to pay for that over five years? With AAA it would be about $300. That is free with Hyundai. How many years and miles of rust-through warranty do you have with a Fit? With a Hyundai, it is 7 years, unlimited miles and is transferrable. If you really want a long warranty, you can get a 10-year, 100k mile, transferrable, zero-deductible warranty on a Hyundai for $900-1000 or so, depending on the model. You make it sound like Honda is the only car company to offer extended warranties on used cars. The fact is, with a Honda you have to buy an extended warranty to get the kind of coverage you get from Hyundai for free. As for every Hyundai owner you have ever known needing to use the warranty every other month--I'd say you don't know many Hyundai owners. Either that, or the dealer service they have is terrible so they have to take the car back for the same problem more than once. I've had no problem getting service under the warranty--even for things like a buzz in the dash that occurred several years in and were not supposed to be covered after the first year, or for things that were due to abuse (e.g. my wife breaking off the little door on the sun visor vanity mirror)--no quibbles from the dealer in fixing them for free. That's great if you love Honda and the Fit. I really like the Fit too--despite its dearth of features compared to some other cars, lack of useful things like locking gas filler doors, remote locking (on base), driver's armrest, height-adjustable driver's seat, decent carpeting, modern electronics (e.g. auto-off headlamps, retained power), modern switchgear, decent wheel covers (on base), a cargo cover, something other than rock-hard plastic in the interior, etc. It is good that the Fit is such a compelling package in terms of versatility, handling, and powertrain because otherwise there is not much to justify its highest-in-class price tag. |
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Replying to: kagedude (Apr 22, 2006 9:35 am) |
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 22, 2006 9:18 am) With all due respect, before you start bashing nonsense, check your facts at the door. Please also have a read of Backy's post, and you might learn a thing or two. Regarding your incorrect perceptions, you might want to head down to your local Hyundai dealer and check out the lineup. Heck, if quality/reliability was an issue that you are concerned about, then you might have examined a Hyundai from the 80s. The latest Hyundais are just as good as its competitors, if not better (the Sonata 05 didn't receive the nod as the most reliable car for nothing). Your warranty theory is off too, by the way. I'd strongly suggest you examine some real cars before posting BS. Anyway, I'm looking forward to checking out both the Accent 3 door and Fit, as well as others in this class. I doubt many of us have driven the Accent yet so writing it off already just because of the badge is quite snob-ish. While (just) on paper, the 3dr (especially the SE version) seems most sporty, with tuned suspensions, 16" wheelies and other desired options for enthusiasts. Of course, I'm sure it will undercut competition without sacrificing value/features. And lastly, the rebuttal to Accent 3dr not being a hatch. I don't recall who posed the statement but FYI, hatch can be 3 door or 5. |
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I posted a response about the warranty and it got lost when this place split into 20 sub-topics. The problem with Hyundai's "warranty" is that it's okay for the original owner only. KIA doesn't have a certified program at all, and Hyundai's is very poor - it just covers the absolute basics of the engine and transmission. Also, I personally find it to be a sign of bad ethics in general to cut your warranty in half the second it is resold. No other manufacturer does this. Real problems with the Accent and Rio come from the fact that it's built like a Yaris/Echo - very very cost-cut to keep the base price as low as humanly possible. - Real-world gas mileage is among the worst in its class. The engine is an adequate and reliable design, but it's also very much like the GM 3800 - an old and lackluster design. It looks good on EPA ratings, but Car and Driver confirmed the sad truth recently - it's not one bit better than a typical midsize car, despite being much much smaller and lighter. *note* - Honda doesn't win any MPG awards, either. Not when a Civic can get so much better results. Something this light should get Yaris MPG by default. KIA? Hyundai practically gutted KIA when they took it over - and put all of that quality into their main line. KIA - became second-best and it shows.(kind of sad, really - KIA was a good company by itself, economics aside). The Rio5 felt *exactly* like a mid 90s Escort Wagon to me. With every last one of the same suspension and drivetrain problems. - Worst manual gearboxes in its class. Bar none, Hyundai/KIA make the worst manual shifters. This is a huge negative, since the car lacks enough power to be fun, safe, and responsive with the automatic. This is true of most small cars, and the Fit is also no exception. But the Fit has a good 5-speed in it. It reminds me of my old Volvo 240 and Mitsubishi. Not fantastic, but good enough to never hunt for or miss a shift. - Side airbags? The Fit is a $12,000 car with almost $1000 in "standard" safety features(that you pay for)added. Sure, the others are cheaper, but you also get a car that's unsafe. I'm not driving without side airbags with Escallades to compete with. Or ABS(KIA). Not acceptable to be optional anymore now that they are twenty year old technology. Hyundai makes you pay 800 for A/C and 1500 for typical features found on the Base fit(alloys aside). Now, the Accent DOES have ABS standard, but it's not really a hatchback, either. But the REAL comparison should be versus the Rio Wagon. It's the closest thing to a Fit out there, except for maybe the Suzuki. But it's a huge dissapointment. $1000 for Fit-Like options(try to even FIND one with ABS, btw) brings it to $14,699(TMV price, Edmunds). No side aribags, worse manual shifter, no magic seats... - Lastly, resale value. Unless you buy used and beat the depreciation(but then have no warranty to speak of OR have to deal with an ex-rental that's been abused), you're going to eat more depreciation than anything but a Crown Vic. The Fit could be sold 3 years from now for probably $10K. The Hyundai/KIA at 3 years old - might as well be a Buick, it's so hard to sell. Put a 3 year old Fit in the paper for $10K - watch it be sold in under 24 hours. They way I see it - you get the same car without having to order the options, more or less, and that $1000 more you pay now is more than returned when you factor in depreciation on both cars.
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 23, 2006 9:22 am) Also, you claim all these subcompacts are built with cheap materials but just not your "SUPERIOR" Fit - well, what do you call those clunky manual lever? That's high quality stuff. I've examined every single subcompact in the class, and Accent/Rio has some of the best interior features vs. competitors. Let me ask you, if Accent 3dr is not a hatchback, then what do you consider as a hatchback, an Accord? Lastly, you are still way off on the warranty, take the time and do some research please. And, can we get back on topic (Fit vs. Accent)? Your nonsense has no relevance to this particular forum. |
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 23, 2006 9:22 am) * The Accent's 5-year, 60k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty transfers in full to subsequent owners. You like to forget that fact. You also like to forget that the Fit's bumper-to-bumper warranty is two years and 24k miles shorter than the Accent's, and that its powertrain warranty for the original owner is 5 years and 40k miles shorter. Which means, if you keep the Accent past 5 years or 60k miles, you get the benefit of a longer powertrain warranty. If you choose not to keep it that long, you and subsequent owners still get a longer bumper-to-bumper warranty than with the Fit, and you and subsequent owners get just as long a powertrain warranty. And you have the option of extending the bumper-to-bumper warranty (transferable) to 10 years, 100k miles for about $1000. Please explain how all this makes the Accent inferior to the Fit in the area of warranty coverage. BTW, Mitsubishi has a similar warranty program to Hyundai's, so your statement about no other car company has a warranty like that is not accurate. * How do you know that the Accent is "built like the Yaris/ECHO"? Do you have intimate knowledge of the Accent's, Yaris', and ECHO's manufacturing processes? Have you driven a 2006 Accent, head-to-head with a Yaris or a Fit? * Re the fuel economy of the Accent as measured by C/D--it is no where near that of the average mid-sized car. The average mid-sized car gets around 22-23 mpg overall (e.g. see CR's test numbers for mid-sized cars). The Accent got 30 mpg overall in C/D's tests. Not as high as the Fit, true. But can't you make that point without posting false information? * Re the manual shifter, I haven't tried the manual shifter in the 2006 Accent yet but I take C/D's word for it that it is not as good as the one in the Fit. I know that Honda makes great stick shifts. But you have no basis for extending this issue to all Hyundais. The stick shift on my '01 Elantra is quite good. Not as good as the one on a Civic, for example, but not bad at all. I have read positive reviews over the years on the stick on the Elantra, and also on the Sonata and the Tiburon. Do you have any evidence that says Hyundai makes the worst stick shifts? Anyway, I found the Accent's automatic very smooth and plenty peppy enough for my needs. And the automatic in the Accent actually gets higher fuel economy on the highway than the stick (taller gearing I suppose). Have you driven a 2006 Accent with a stick, or are you just going by what you read? * I don't know where you are going with your comments about side airbags because the Accent has six airbags standard. Also ABS is standard on both the GLS sedan and the SE hatchback. I really don't think you want to get into comparing equipment levels on the Fit and Accent. For example, for $14,500 ($100 more than the base Fit) you get on the Accent GLS a six-speaker 172-watt MP3 stereo, an 8-way adjustable driver's seat, 15" alloys, heated power mirrors, power locks with remote locking and alarm, lighted vanity mirrors, eight cupholders, folding center front and rear armrests, A/C, power windows with one-touch down on the driver's window, side moldings, dead pedal, two 12-volt accessory outlets, and full gauges including a temperature gauge. Plus the actual price of the Accent is only $13,500 after $1000 rebate. A lot of car for the money. BTW, you are incorrect about the Rio5 not having side airbags standard. It has six airbags standard just like the Accent. Maybe you should do some research on these cars before posting statements like this. It doesn't help your credibility on your other points, either. * As for resale, I agree that Hondas have historically higher resale value than Hyundais. However, I have found that the lower up front cost more than makes up for this disparity. For example, I just sold my '01 Elantra GLS and got $5800 less than its original purchase price, after 5-1/2 years (yes, no warranty left). I figure that I would have lost more than that had I purchased the other car I looked at back then, a '01 Civic EX. However, if you plan on owning a car for only a couple of years, the Fit could be a better choice (unless you can get a big discount on the Accent) because the bulk of the depreciation comes up front. |
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