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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Plug-in Hybrids 
330 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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I think the 100MPG number for plug-in hybrids is misleading. You may only burn 1 gallon to go that hundred miles, but that one gallon of gas will not be what propels your car that far. Coal will be. Or natural gas. Or Uranium, or wind, or whatever your local electricuty company feeds into your grid. It's like putting a gallon of gas in the trunk of your electric car, and saying you're getting an infinite range on that gallon of gas. You're not. You're using a different fuel source. Now, on a side note, here's my idea for energy independence. Offer an X-Prize type award, say $20 million, to the first carmaker, foreign or domestic, that brings to market in the US an all electric, battery powered midsize sedan that will run 150 miles  80 MPH on a single charge, can recharge in under 5 minutes, and can sell for a profit under $30,000. Granted, the technology to build this car does not exist today, but dangle a $20 million carrot in front of the carmakers' noses, and you'd be amazed at the innovations they can produce.
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Replying to: bobbymcgee1980 (May 15, 2006 3:50 pm) Bill Clinton dangled a $2 billion carrot, and we got the EV1 from GM. They are all crushed and stacked in the desert. In all fairness the nickel metal hydride battery was a result of that carrot. As I am sure you know batteries are the key. So far nothing out there is practical for the range and power you are looking for. I imagine several 100 million more will be spent before we see the electric car we want. There are some $100k electric cars that are fast. Just no real range. |
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Replying to: bobbymcgee1980 (May 15, 2006 3:50 pm) Also ACPropulsion is converting Scions later in 2006, 100,200 or 300 mile range all electric. Also EDrive and Hymotion are adding lithium batteries to the 2004 and newer Prius for plugin hybrids. If you have grid tied solar like me your super clean, if not use off peak dirty grid and use the excess power they have to almost give away off peak. It's cleaner than anything out of a gas car.
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Replying to: eaa (May 15, 2006 5:07 pm) I was ready to buy this little beauty and it will not be allowed in my area of CA. If you are not a big player with lots of lobby money forget selling your product in this state. 
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Not all the EV-1's ended up crushed and stacked in the desert. One is on display at the Smithsonian in DC. Sweet looking little car. Too bad there's no way for a private owner to get ahold of one. It would make for a great collector car in 20 or 30 years  Bill Clinton (We'll give him partial credit for effort) dumped a lot of government research money into electric cars. What I'm talking about is more of a prize to be awarded only when the industry builds a practical one, not a windfall of cash to be spent whether the desired results are attained or not. That being said, investing squillions of dollars into research like that still isn't a bad idea.
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Replying to: bobbymcgee1980 (May 23, 2006 1:59 pm) The prize WILL be awarded when industry builds a practical one. It will come in the form of profits from sales. |
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Replying to: bobbymcgee1980 (May 23, 2006 1:59 pm) The organizations currently promoting this technology are doing it with the intent of proving a concept. They don't expect the typical Prius owner to spend $10k (I think its actually less) and void his warranty. They're looking to get enough people that are passionate about this technology and don't really care about whether it's cost effective. These people will not only be the test bed to demonstrate the benefits of PHEVs but they will also be the missionaries spreading awareness. If you go to calcar.org it will become immediately apparent that their primary goal is to influence the major auto manufacturers to offer PHEVs. They readily admit that Toyota, Honda, Ford, et al are in a much better position to produce these vehicles than the handful of niche conversion companies.
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Replying to: tpe (May 24, 2006 3:23 pm) I tried finding one of those a while back and no luck. I would imagine folks that got them are hanging on. The 2003 model is still under warranty. I wonder if Toyota ever replaced any of those batteries. Here is the Toyota link for that car. For me an all electric would be more practical than a hybrid. RAV4 electric
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Replying to: gagrice (May 24, 2006 4:20 pm) Here's some excellent information on the RAV4 EV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV For me an all electric would be more practical than a hybrid. I agree that the all electric vehicle is the ultimate goal. The PHEV is an evolutionary step in that direction that will accelerate the process of getting to EVs. Unlike the current batch of hybrids, which derive 100% of their energy from gas, and the E85 "solution" PHEVs have the potential to offer significant fuel savings for all types of vehicles. If PHEVs are offered with the capability of providing 50 miles of all electric operation that would account for more than 85% of all trips taken. So over 85% of the time we get in our cars we wouldn't be burning any gas. Yes we'd be using electricity off the grid so lets refer to these vehicles as G85 (grid 85). The difference here is that an electric vehicle like the RAV4 EV can go 3 miles on a kWh of energy. A gallon of gas has roughly 35 kWh of chemical energy. You'd have to be able to go 105 miles on that gallon in an ICE to achieve the same efficiency as an EV. That will never happen in a vehicle with the size and performance of a RAV4 EV.
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Replying to: tpe (May 25, 2006 3:55 am) Then there are transmission losses for electric power, and transportation losses for supplying gasoline and diesel to the distribution points and the retail outlets. In some areas of the country ice storms cause power outages, during which EVs would be inoperable. EVs have a place as an uncompromising city commuter vehicle, but I don't think they are the single ultimate answer. A Plug-in HEV seems to me to be a great all purpose vehicle.
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