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330 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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Hey Bob, (moved discussion from another board) Here is a link to the RAV4 EV. 78 mph small sport ute with a range of up to 125miles per charge. Now if you had a small diesel engine to boot, you have an ulitmate one stop shop car. I am confident the technology will get there. Too bad gas wasn't high enough for the public to embrace it at the time. I saw a mucky muck for GM saying that is was a mistake that they discontinued their EV as well. http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/rav4_ev_click_click.html http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/17328.shtml Wow, SLO is expensive..of course I thought it was underpriced years back when I looked there.
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Replying to: reddroverr (Jun 28, 2006 4:07 pm) Wilkepedia reports that the EV1, GM's defuncted production 2-seater EV, consumed 0.179 kWh/mile or 0.373 kWh/mile, charge cycle. That works out to 100, or 200 mpg GGE, greenhouse gas equivalent, which is based on one gallon of petroleum producing 36.6 kWh of electricity. I think the true figure is the 100 mpgGGE or 5 cents a mile at 15 cents/kwh as that includes the energy lost in charging the batteries against the internal resistance. At first the EV1 was powered with lead-acid batteries. Later it was offered with nickel batteries which have twice the energy density. Now lithium is becoming the standard with another 33% improvement in density and a safer production-to-disposal cycle, since lithium is ingestible and lead and nickel are toxic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 By contrast, my electric bike consumes about 0.015 kWh/mi going about 23 mph, with some modest pedalling on my part. Including the charge loss that would be about 1200 mpgGGE. This week I've substituted 80 miles of car travel. What a hardship riding a bike around the Morro Bay estuary! An interesting sidelight is that a bicycle powered by a person fed on bread only gets 300 mpgGGE. Fed by beef it comes out to 30 mpgGGE, same as a Honda Civic. This, of course, is due to the embedded energy in food. Today's news reports that Daimler Chrysler will be offering the 700 cc. SmartCar in the US for 2008. I looked up the figures and it appears that it will get a relatively unimpressive realworld average of 50 mpg, same as the Honda Insight hybrid, also a two-seater. Toyota makes the 4-passenger Yaris (comparable to the Honda Fit) in Europe with a 1.0 litre, 69 hp engine getting realworld 44 mpg and a 1.4 litre, 90 hp diesel getting realworld 52 mpg. Compare these with the Prius which gets a realworld 44 mpg (Consumer Reports) and costs twice the price, and added impacts, of the Yaris. Of course, EVs powered on renewables produce greatly reduced, though not insignificant, emissions. They also make the US less dependent on foreign oil and the wars used to get it. There really isn't any such thing as green energy and as good as good as car-sized EVs may be they aren't the quantum leap that we'll need to deal with the energy demands of mid-century. But electric bikes, trikes, velomobiles and NEV (golf carts) coupled with public transportation could reduce the energy spent on transportation by a factor of ten. Hope this post is appropriate for this board. Bob
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Replying to: bob104 (Jul 01, 2006 5:18 pm) I am not so concerned about GGE. Eventually we will have to use one of the technologies now in the works to chomp away the stuff. Herculean efforts to reduce emissions will still not make a large enough difference to slow or reverse the pace...if indeed it is human caused. As of now, i think only 6% or so of our electric grid power is derived from petroleum. By contrast, my electric bike consumes about 0.015 kWh/mi going about 23 mph, with some modest pedalling on my part. Including the charge loss that would be about 1200 mpgGGE. This week I've substituted 80 miles of car travel. What a hardship riding a bike around the Morro Bay estuary! An interesting sidelight is that a bicycle powered by a person fed on bread only gets 300 mpgGGE. Fed by beef it comes out to 30 mpgGGE, same as a Honda Civic. This, of course, is due to the embedded energy in food. I don't really buy the whole bike added calories thing. I can ride a bike with very little effort. Now, I grant that your E-bike is very efficient But I don't grant that it is more efficient than a human powered bike. You are pedalling as well? If we really want to get picky, we can talk about the maintenance of power lines...gas, vehicles, human calories, calories and energy that went into producing the electric motor drive for your bike, the extra effort it takes to walk a heavier electric bike, the workers at the power plants energy spent, battery disposal..etc. This gets into the realm of those who try to justify The Hummer as being more efficient. Suffice to say that your E-bike is a very good choice for those who would choose it. The Smart car is a bit of a dissapointment. A diesel model would be nice ..add that 20-30% mileage and you really have something there. Too bad they don't make that thing to come in at about $8-9k, I would probably look seriously at one. At $15k I expect something that has some storage capacity and seats four. Re high mileage yaris: Hard for toyota to send over a tiny car that would outmileage the Prius. I am sure a lot of folks would be led to the lower margin car. I do hope we get it though. HOpefully lots of better alternatives are just around the bend. hopefully the mods wont care where this thread goes..it is pretty dead anyway. |
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I don't really buy the whole bike added calories thing. I can ride a bike with very little effort. Now, I grant that your E-bike is very efficient But I don't grant that it is more efficient than a human powered bike. You are pedalling as well? If we really want to get picky, we can talk about the maintenance of power lines...gas, vehicles, human calories, calories and energy that went into producing the electric motor drive for your bike, the extra effort it takes to walk a heavier electric bike, the workers at the power plants energy spent, battery disposal..etc. This gets into the realm of those who try to justify The Hummer as being more efficient. Suffice to say that your E-bike is a very good choice for those who would choose it. The claims of the original poster agree with what I've read on the subject. All the power requirements for bicycling have been worked out by the bicycle racing community and the weight loss industry. An electric bike is much more efficient than a human peddler. Heck, 25 years ago VW claimed the the Rabbit diesel burned fewer calories per mile than a human jogging. From memory I'm going to say VW claimed 50 Cal/mile (=50 kcal/mile). The financial and energy costs of generating and transmitting electricity are also well known. These are not a matters of personal opinion. The failure to subtract for the manufacturing and recycling costs is common and not done for regular automobiles either. I agree with you and the original poster that the Smart Car doesn't get high enough fuel economy for the cost and the small size. The VW Lupo 3L sold in Europe gets its name from its fuel use of less than 3L of diesel fuel per 100 km which converts to 78 mpgUS. The Lupo 3L is a four seater with 3-cyl TDI of displacement 1.0 L or a little more, no a/c, special lightweight construction. But the engine undoubtedly wouldn't satisfy USEPA in European tune.
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Replying to: jim314 (Jul 08, 2006 3:31 pm) Exercise can aid sleep and may actually reduce appetite... "Hormones like Lepitin, which makes you feel full and suppresses your appetite, but Ghrenelin tells your brain you're hungry.? "When we don't get enough sleep the Leptin will decrease and the Ghrelin will increase and this stimulates appetite and when you stimulate appetite you also increase the desire to consume foods that are higher in sugars and higher in fats." McAuthur says daily activity also releases a third hormone, called endorphins, which helps calm tension and stress. "People fall asleep more quickly the day they exercise they also sleep longer it's less interrupted" http://www.wnct.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WNCT/MGArticle/NCT_BasicArticle&c- =MGArticle&cid=1031784643505&path= Or to take a different tack, if the rider considers his rides to work as his exercise for the day, he/she may not do more exersize at home, so in that case it would be a net zero. All in all, I think we have gone too far if we are going to stop exercising as a way to fight energy dependence or GHG. |
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Anybody going to hybridfest? http://www.hybridfest.com/ Sounds like a big event and I heard they have new plug-in hybrids and even a refurbished, working EV-1. Lots of things to do and see, people are attending from all around the country and Canada. Hope to see you there! |
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A California connected a bicycle to generator and as we pedal, it will generate electricity and feed into the grid. So we do exercise and also generate clean electricity. Hope that system is sold in the market. |
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"WASHINGTON - Toyota sees a future in plugging in vehicles — instead of simply pulling in for gas. Already a leader in the hybrid market with its Prius sedan, Toyota Motor Corp. plans to develop a hybrid vehicle that will run locally on batteries charged by a typical 120-volt outlet before switching over to a gasoline engine for longer hauls. PResident Bush has touted the potential of the technology but obstacles exist, ranging from making the batteries lighter, less expensive and more durable. Some observers have expressed concern about the ability of the electrical grid to support the vehicles, but supporters say most plug-ins would be recharged at night. Hybrids account for only about 1 percent of the market but have grown in popularity with gas prices topping $3 a gallon. A report on fuel economy trends issued by the Environmental Protection Agency this week found that the Prius, Honda Civic hybrid and Ford Escape hybrid sport utility vehicle had the highest gas mileage ratings in their respective classes." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_bi_ge/hybrid_cars |
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For my commute, a PIH (plug-in Hybrid) would only need about 20 miles range per day, max speed 40 MPH for me to be able to use EV mode the whole trip. Let's go Toyota, get this thing on the market and fast and AFFORDABLY !!! 
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 27, 2006 10:47 am) |
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