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Plug-in Hybrids - READ ONLY

330 messages,  Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars


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#309 of 330
Re: PHEV fire [igh] by tpe
Jul 02, 2008 (5:15 am)

Replying to: igh (Jul 01, 2008 7:29 pm)

That's a little misleading because they don't take into account the electricity that was used to charge the battery pack. Theoretically one of these PHEV owners could make nothing but short trips, never use any gas, and claim infinite mileage. I'm pretty sure the EPA will assign some value to how many kWh of electricity the average driver will use when they determine the mpg rating of PHEVs.
#310 of 330
Re: PHEV fire [igh] by gagrice
Jul 02, 2008 (5:21 am)

Replying to: igh (Jul 01, 2008 7:29 pm)

The package that BluePHEV has installed in his 2007 Prius is the PHEV-40. I would imagine that cost him close to $40,000 installed. So he now has a $70k Prius that has to handle like a pig with all that additional weight. He has no Toyota warranty and may save a few $1000 over the life of the vehicle. Strictly for the wealthy techno-geek with money to burn. I can think of a lot of vehicles I would rather have for $70k.
#311 of 330
Re: PHEV fire [gagrice] by igh
Jul 02, 2008 (1:17 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Jul 02, 2008 5:21 am)

The PHEV-20 L5 kit from Hymotion is 10K now. The PHEV-40 kit should
be 20K now. The economics are getting better with better battery tech,
higher volume and higher gas prices but it is still not there yet.
 
It is impossible to get infinte mpg from a Prius as the ICE will always switch
on from a cold start to warm the CAT converter. I calculated that this
operation burns .05 gals each time.
 
So for my daily commute of 10 miles each way on city streets I will burn
.1 gals. That gives me 200 mpg (without considering the charge)
and yearly use of about 6000 miles. It will save me 90 gals of gas per year
or $450 even at $5/gal.
 
It will cost 35 cents to charge overnight at 9c/kwh. So that will cost
about $100 per year. So early savings is max $350 and it leads to
breakeven of > 25 years. So it is still not viable from a economic point
of view - but maybe green point of view. I am hopeful it will be much better
once Toyota or Chevy atually starts selling these or if the Saudis
decide to really take us for a ride.
 
Not too concerned about handling at < 40 mph on cty streets. Hymotion have crash tested for safety.
#312 of 330
Re: PHEV fire [igh] by gagrice
Jul 02, 2008 (5:35 pm)

Replying to: igh (Jul 02, 2008 1:17 pm)

I was thinking of Hybrid Plus in Colorado. They were charging about $24k for the entry level and $32k for the long range PHEV kit. I am not familiar with Hymotion. They are not yet selling their product. They are taking deposits for delivery starting in December. Hybrid Plus was selling theirs until one caught on fire. They have recommended they should all be parked until they can assess the problem. Both use the A123 Li-Ion battery.
#313 of 330
As reported on Cnet by larsb
Jul 30, 2008 (12:42 pm)
Luscious Garage in SanFran
 
Luscious Garage is offering to perform plug-in hybrid conversions with equipment from Plug-In Supply.
 
Petaluma, Calif.-based Plug-In Supply. announced last week at the Plug-In 2008 conference that it will sell $5,000 conversion systems with lead-acid batteries, enabling a Prius to achieve the equivalent of 100 miles per gallon and drive 20 miles on a full charge. Kits with lithium-ion batteries cost $11,000.
 
A conversion for $5K that gives 20 miles !! That's a great price !!!
#314 of 330
Re: As reported on Cnet [larsb] by texases
Jul 30, 2008 (1:01 pm)

Replying to: larsb (Jul 30, 2008 12:42 pm)

Hmmm...never can tell when you're kidding, Lars - if you go from, say, 50 mpg to 100 mpg, you'll save 1000 gallons over 100,000 miles, right? Worth about $4000? And the kit costs between $5000 and $11,000? hmmmmmm
#315 of 330
Re: As reported on Cnet [texases] by gagrice
Jul 30, 2008 (1:17 pm)

Replying to: texases (Jul 30, 2008 1:01 pm)

You have to forgive him. He has a hybrid brain. Great at any cost. My question is how much that adds to the already Porky Prius? At least a 500 lbs of Lead Acid batteries. I think PHEVs are headed backwards. What happened to the NiMH batteries?
#316 of 330
Re: As reported on Cnet [gagrice] by larsb
Jul 30, 2008 (1:35 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Jul 30, 2008 1:17 pm)

"hybrid brain" -Good One !! LOL !!!
#317 of 330
by gwmort
Jul 31, 2008 (5:29 am)
Hmmm...never can tell when you're kidding, Lars - if you go from, say, 50 mpg to 100 mpg, you'll save 1000 gallons over 100,000 miles, right? Worth about $4000? And the kit costs between $5000 and $11,000? hmmmmmm
 
Assumes gas will stay at $4 a gallon over the next 100,000 miles. When I bought by 2003 prius 110,000 miles ago gas was much closer to $2 a gallon. Once our market corrects and we are paying global/European prices between $8-10 per gallon (currently likely to rise in years to come). Spending $5k to save 1000 gallons will look like a better deal.
 
Any all electric range will be invaluable once the shortages arrive and Joe Gasburner can't fill his tank.
#318 of 330
Re: [gwmort] by texases
Jul 31, 2008 (5:45 am)

Replying to: gwmort (Jul 31, 2008 5:29 am)

"Spending $5k to save 1000 gallons will look like a better deal."
 
I might be prepared to roll those dice on a factory-installed version, but aftermarket? No way. Too complex of a system, to many things that could go wrong, too expensive if they do.

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