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330 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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Looks like A123 systems has a conversion plan, and a good one. 'Yota Corporate is not happy about it, however !!! Get your conversion at a 'Yota dealership !!! Four dealerships in the United States are converting the Toyota Prius into a plug-in hybrid using lithium-ion batteries. Toyota dealerships in four U.S. metropolitan areas are offering to convert customers' Priuses into plug-in hybrids, using technology from the battery maker A123 Systems. The arrangement provides the strongest indication yet that lithium-ion battery technology is ready for mainstream automotive use. A123, of suburban Boston, is among the four battery companies General Motors is considering to supply the Chevrolet Volt. GM wants the plug-in hybrid car on the market in 2010. Lithium-ion batteries are seen as key to electrification of the automobile. The industry is debating whether the batteries can withstand mass production and daily use by motorists. The Tesla Roadster, an all-electric $100,000 car that uses lithium-ion batteries, is on sale. But it is widely viewed as an expensive exotic vehicle for a few enthusiasts. About 600,000 Priuses are on U.S. highways. The hybrid car's base sticker price is $22,160, including shipping. How many Prius owners will spend $10,000 to convert the cars to plug-in power is unknown. A123 wants Congress to provide a tax credit of $2,500 to $3,000 to Prius owners who make the conversion. Leslie Goldman, an attorney who represents A123 in Washington, said more than 1,000 Prius owners are on a waiting list for the conversion. The technology "is ready for prime time," said Goldman, who has been driving a converted Prius prototype for about 18 months. Felix Kramer, an expert on plug-in hybrids, said he believes the A123 conversion will perform satisfactorily. It uses lithium-phosphate, which does not have the same risk of overheating and exploding as some other lithium chemistries, Kramer said. A123 does not want to jeopardize its future business supplying batteries to automakers for new vehicles, added Kramer, founder of the California Cars Initiative. Toyota is unhappy about the conversions but said its dealerships are independent businesses that can do what they want.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 11, 2008 5:32 pm) Yet you are comfortable with a Li-ion laptop in your house. If your concerned about a fire I'm sure the battery pack in a laptop is big enough to get the job done.
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 18, 2008 9:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2008 10:18 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 18, 2008 10:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2008 8:17 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 16, 2008 12:15 pm) probably raise the value of your used car by $5k at least, maybe more...(another guess). a new replacement prius would cost you well over twice the 10k. pretty close to making sense even on a pure economic basis. No wonder Toyota doesn't like it one bit. |
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 19, 2008 6:22 am) Can you supply a URL? I know that for laptop batteries, they are only good for about 500 cycles, and they work best when they are almost, but not completely, discharged before recharging. At least that is my experience with Li-Ion batteries.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jun 19, 2008 5:25 pm) I'll track down a reference. I know that the A123 Systems batteries being considered by GM have been tested through thousands of charge/discharge cycles. This 500 cycle limit might be true for laptop batteries. What people need to realize is that the chemistries being used in Li-ion battery packs designed for vehicle applications is fundamentally different from what's now being used in laptop batteries. Even though I suspect today's laptop batteries last longer than they did a couple years ago. |
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I know Gary is going to say, "see SEE SEE but I'm posting it anyway, for informational purposes ONLY. Battery not at fault Even though neither of these fires apparently were caused by lithium-ion batteries, the news is likely to raise some concern about plug-in hybrids from consumers and automakers, said Mike Omotoso, senior manager of global powertrain research at JD Power and Associates. “This shows [companies] need more time for testing the viability of these vehicles before they can be commercialized,” he said. “This is a good example of why some manufacturers, like Honda, have been holding off on making plug-in hybrids. It’s clear it’s not just as simple as connecting a cable to your battery and plugging it into your wall. If that were the case, it would have been done by the major manufacturers already.” He emphasized that these fires don’t necessarily mean that plug-in hybrids are unsafe, but said they could raise the perception of a safety issue, which could impact their commercialization. “There’s a difference between someone doing an after-market conversion in a garage, versus a manufacturer making a plug-in hybrid from the get-go,” he said. “If there are more of these examples, even if it’s just some guy in a garage, people will think, ‘Maybe plug-in hybrids aren’t the way to go because they are too unsafe.’ ” In a newsletter released Wednesday night, CalCars.org indicated similar concerns. “For several years, some opinion leaders from automakers, utilities and national labs have expressed their fears that ‘one bad accident’ could set back the progress of [plug-in hybrids],” CalCars.org founder Felix Kramer wrote. “We have agreed that safety must be top priority. … We hope that this and other incidents will lead to far greater emphasis on safety as well as full and rapid disclosure of incidents.” He added that the nonprofit is aware that conversions by small companies and individuals never could be as well-designed as those by large carmakers, which is why it has encouraged automakers to bring plug-in hybrids to the market more quickly. “The fact that carmakers can build better and safer PHEVs is self-evident, but the demand is so great that individuals and companies continue to bang down the doors of the suppliers of conversions,” he said. “We’re all impatient for the great transition to electrification of transportation to begin. The longer we have to wait, the larger will be the trend toward third-party conversions, for better or for worse.” Still, he argued, it’s important to keep the danger in perspective. After all, the cars we already drive every day use a highly explosive fuel that could be set off by a stray spark or catch fire in accidents, he wrote.
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