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330 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 16, 2008 8:35 am) I was sad they crushed the EV-1s myself. I do understand GM not wanting to be responsible after they were shot down by CARB on the ZEV mandate. You may see Tesla go by the wayside also after the CA lawmakers pulled most of the incentives to keep going with their EVs. |
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Looks like A123 systems has a conversion plan, and a good one. 'Yota Corporate is not happy about it, however !!! Get your conversion at a 'Yota dealership !!! Four dealerships in the United States are converting the Toyota Prius into a plug-in hybrid using lithium-ion batteries. Toyota dealerships in four U.S. metropolitan areas are offering to convert customers' Priuses into plug-in hybrids, using technology from the battery maker A123 Systems. The arrangement provides the strongest indication yet that lithium-ion battery technology is ready for mainstream automotive use. A123, of suburban Boston, is among the four battery companies General Motors is considering to supply the Chevrolet Volt. GM wants the plug-in hybrid car on the market in 2010. Lithium-ion batteries are seen as key to electrification of the automobile. The industry is debating whether the batteries can withstand mass production and daily use by motorists. The Tesla Roadster, an all-electric $100,000 car that uses lithium-ion batteries, is on sale. But it is widely viewed as an expensive exotic vehicle for a few enthusiasts. About 600,000 Priuses are on U.S. highways. The hybrid car's base sticker price is $22,160, including shipping. How many Prius owners will spend $10,000 to convert the cars to plug-in power is unknown. A123 wants Congress to provide a tax credit of $2,500 to $3,000 to Prius owners who make the conversion. Leslie Goldman, an attorney who represents A123 in Washington, said more than 1,000 Prius owners are on a waiting list for the conversion. The technology "is ready for prime time," said Goldman, who has been driving a converted Prius prototype for about 18 months. Felix Kramer, an expert on plug-in hybrids, said he believes the A123 conversion will perform satisfactorily. It uses lithium-phosphate, which does not have the same risk of overheating and exploding as some other lithium chemistries, Kramer said. A123 does not want to jeopardize its future business supplying batteries to automakers for new vehicles, added Kramer, founder of the California Cars Initiative. Toyota is unhappy about the conversions but said its dealerships are independent businesses that can do what they want.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 11, 2008 5:32 pm) Yet you are comfortable with a Li-ion laptop in your house. If your concerned about a fire I'm sure the battery pack in a laptop is big enough to get the job done.
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 18, 2008 9:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2008 10:18 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 18, 2008 10:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2008 8:17 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 16, 2008 12:15 pm) probably raise the value of your used car by $5k at least, maybe more...(another guess). a new replacement prius would cost you well over twice the 10k. pretty close to making sense even on a pure economic basis. No wonder Toyota doesn't like it one bit. |
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 19, 2008 6:22 am) Can you supply a URL? I know that for laptop batteries, they are only good for about 500 cycles, and they work best when they are almost, but not completely, discharged before recharging. At least that is my experience with Li-Ion batteries.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jun 19, 2008 5:25 pm) I'll track down a reference. I know that the A123 Systems batteries being considered by GM have been tested through thousands of charge/discharge cycles. This 500 cycle limit might be true for laptop batteries. What people need to realize is that the chemistries being used in Li-ion battery packs designed for vehicle applications is fundamentally different from what's now being used in laptop batteries. Even though I suspect today's laptop batteries last longer than they did a couple years ago. |
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