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330 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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Replying to: texases (Jun 11, 2008 7:45 am) These EV fanatics would have jumped at he chance to sign it as long as they can have their hands on these electric cars.
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Replying to: peralta (Jun 11, 2008 12:51 pm) |
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 11, 2008 7:41 am) I am sure they would have. That is less than the battery cost. Those cars were in the $70k to build range. Just as you pointed out the owners would have wanted GM to warranty them. When CA dropped the ZEV mandate they killed any incentive to sell EVs. Pure and simple it was government that was to blame. It was just business for GM. They got money from the PNGV program and used it to build the EV-1. At least NiMH batteries were perfected as a result of our tax payer money being wasted. I felt GM should have handed them over to the government and they could have been used or given to universities etc. GM could have said here they are, as is, where is. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 11, 2008 1:02 pm) As far as the PNGV program, it was FAR from a waste of money. As you pointed out, hybrid batteries were one result. The other result was forcing Honda and Toyota to take battery power seriously, which in effect created the hybrid situation. So the stepping stones to future alternative-energy vehicles will look something like this: EV-1 Gasoline/Electric Hybrids PHEVs ? Fuel Cell? ???? ???? Regardless, the end result will be wonderful.
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Looks like 'Yota wants to beat the Volt to market. GM execs ought to be sweating now: Toyota: "We'll have a PHEV by 2010 in the USA" Awesome if they can do it !!!
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 11, 2008 1:57 pm) Yours: EV-1 Gasoline/Electric Hybrids PHEVs ? Fuel Cell? Mine: -High-efficieny ICE (lose the excess weight and power, max emissions controls) -Current hybrids, light cars only (max Camry sized, larger don't make $$ sense) -Turbo diesels for larger vehicles if a drop in relative fuel cost -PHEVs once batteries available -100% electric city cars using those batteries Right now, I don't see: -Fuel cells (no reasonable hydrogen source, better to use the electricity charging batteries) -Turbo diesel hybrids ($$ don't make sense) -NG vehicles (too much $$ for filling equipment, no major advantage over gasoline). |
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 11, 2008 2:58 pm) I don't think so. Toyota does not plan to sell their Plug-in Hybrid to you or I. Toyota Motor plans to produce lithium ion batteries next year for a plug-in hybrid vehicle available in 2010. The company on Wednesday said that the plug-in hybrid will be "geared toward fleet customers in Japan, (the) United States, and Europe." Could mean a few things. 1. They know they cannot make them price competitive with NiMH for the individual. 2. They do not want to warranty the batteries for 10 years. 3. They are not convinced they will not burn your house down while they are charging in the garage. For me, I will not live to be old enough to feel comfortable with any Lithium Ion hybrid in my garage.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 11, 2008 5:32 pm) Neither Toyota nor GM nor Mitsu not Honda nor any other car maker is going to sell a lithium battery system which will catch fire in your garage. They just won't. It will be safety tested a thousand different directions before it's on the road. And the fact that 'Yota says "fleet customers FIRST" only means they are going to a little additional "real world testing" before launching it to the masses. You think for one second the driving public is going to tolerate seeing a 100 miles per gallon Prius driving down the road and not clamor to have one themselves? It would be a MARKETING DISASTER/NIGHTMARE for 'Yota to make those available and then not sell to the public. 'Yota ain't that stupid mi amigo.
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 12, 2008 5:03 am) Did you read point number two? If the cost of the battery has not diminished considerably, you may want a plug-in Prius, but cannot justify $50k that it costs. Just like GM is talking about LEASING the battery in the Volt. Toyota probably will have the same cost issues to deal with. It will be interesting and I am sure Toyota announcing the PHEV is to try and sway the buyers away from the Volt in favor of their own vehicle. It is just marketing vapor ware until you see the car on the dealers lot. Finding a battery company that will warranty a Li-Ion for 10 years will be a challenge also. The technology does not have a good longevity record. Another reason for leasing the batteries.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 12, 2008 6:00 am) And the battery is not going to cost $50K Gary my gosh !! The company that does plug-in Prius conversions charges $10K for their smallest one, and you know they have a good solid profit margin in there. And that's batteries which they buy AT MOST in quantities probably of 10 at a time. Didn't you see all the recent news about 'Yota's new hybrid battery factories? They are going to use economy of scale to reduce those prices to reasonable amounts. They are going to build a huge number of batteries every year. Don't be such a cynic mi amigo - life is too short..........
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