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418 messages, Last post on Sep 26, 2008 at 7:53 AM
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Replying to: texases (Jul 07, 2008 8:05 am) |
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| Why can't anyone focus on the cost of battery replacement in hybrids and the incremental cost in the electricity bill of the unlucky owner of a "plug-in" hybrid? What about the ability of the electricity grid to cope with a large amount of these appliances recharging? Wouldn't that entail an increased use in fossil fuel accross the board and increase the price of oil? | |
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Replying to: jfjr (Jul 12, 2008 3:59 pm) If not you might want to enter the 21st Century. The DOE estimated that the current energy grid could easily handle many millions of vehicle plugged in over night with no stress at all. Again this has been published and research is your friend. The answer to your last two questions is NO. Burning petro-fuel in vehicles is far less efficient than fueling a power plant. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 12, 2008 7:14 pm) Yep, came across some #s on that - regular car engines are about 18% thermally efficient - the other 82% of energy released by the burning gas goes out the radiator or exhaust pipe as heat. Modern power plants are about twice as efficient (36%), and they're aiming at 40%. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 12, 2008 7:14 pm) California has mandated many utilities to switch to alternatives such as Solar or Wind. Solar will be useless after sunset. That would negate the value of a plug-in hybrid. I would not foresee a problem for a few more years as the Feds are holding up new Solar farms with environmental studies. More along the lines of this thread. I don't think you could ever have a payback on the current crop of after market Plug-in hybrids. A $60k+ Prius will never pay for itself.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 13, 2008 5:52 am) The Plugin that Toyota is envisioning I believe is a $35000 - $38000 super trim for a few well off buyers. They may or may not be able to take advantage of any Tax Credit that GM pushes through Congress. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 12, 2008 7:14 pm)
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$35 for a Toyota Prius on Ebay!! Serious, I am not going to buy one now, If you have the kind of cash, I am not going to get a $35k Prius, I will get something else, and atleast have more fun. People are crazy to buy a Prius right now with the mark up. You are dumping your money right into the payment. No savings. People, think it over. Don't throw your hard earned money away. Its not our fault the dealers and Toyota cannot produce enough for the demand, and bump the price up. Which is just wrong for taking advantage of us when its already crazy to fill up. For $35k, I will get a Loaded Acura, or for less, a loaded Accord, and still be paying less, and get decent mileage. You also have more fun in this car than any Prius. If I were a dealer manager, I would sell my Prius's at sticker, not anything more, because at the end of the day, were all customers, and what goes around comes around. Its a tough business, and I am not sure I could be a salesmen, it would not fit my personality. I am too nice, I would be so blunt, it might get me fired. People make a good choice, don't buy a $35k Prius, even $28k, or any higher than sticker. Drive a car you want for that price.
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Replying to: jfjr (Jul 13, 2008 4:27 pm) It would cost probably a third as much for the electricity, if that, given the lack of road taxes, the much higher efficiency of a central power plant compared to a car, and the much cheaper in $/BTU fuel used to make electricity. p.s. - the 'attitude' won't get you many responses around here. |
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Replying to: jfjr (Jul 13, 2008 4:27 pm) This is very reasonable but it likely will vary from region to region. But .... and this is the key issue for many .... by doing this it cuts out three groups for which there is no love lost. Oil producers ( OPEC ), speculators, and the Big Oil companies. I am all for sending no money to any of these. Whatever money is spent on 'fuel' stays in the US.
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